Why if I study karate and I get beat does karate suck?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by INTERNAL BOXING, Jan 17, 2005.

  1. ANCIENTMASTER

    ANCIENTMASTER New Member

  2. MartialArtN00b

    MartialArtN00b New Member

    I havent bothered to read the pages ive missed.

    But i think, siphus, after more than half a month time spent on this thread, and the 16 pages of debate that spawned off from your posts. You MUST have come to the conclusion, that nothing you say here will change any mind. :confused:
     
  3. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    As one of my buyu said in a PM, its no use trying to talk to you guys, esp over the internet. You have to have some kind of knowledge in what I'm talking about, either by training in Ninjutsu, or a face to face talk. You have no idea how I train, and know nothing about my system, and I cant even try and talk to you about it over the internet. Its like that stupid cliche saying that I hate reading, but its true "you cant explain it, you just have to experience". So with that, you win, I'm wrong, go away now.

    PS: I never said an MMA guy couldnt hold his own against a knife. You are using the "straw man" approach. That means, you make a man out of straw, put a shirt on him that says "siphus" then put a bunch of words into my mouth and attack him. Learn to read, and maybe take some ninpo classes. Other than that its no use.
     
  4. Timmy Boy

    Timmy Boy Man on a Mission

    Oh you're so much more mature than me, Siphus. Funny how you weren't so above internet debating when you initially stated your opinions.

    I know what a straw-man argument is, Siphus, but it's not what I'm using. As usual you're just avoiding the issue.
     
  5. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    I didnt say YOU were. "Siphus you keep saying MMA guys wouldn't be able to stop someone with a knife. Well this guys a no name cage fighter and he held his own." thats wut i was talking about.

    Although, technically you are in the previous thread

    Again, I cant explain my views any better than I already have. You (and others) have no idea where I'm coming from. Fortunetly, I DO know where you and others are coming from, being from a TKD/MT/JKD/WC background. Get some ninpo experience, and then MAYBE we can talk. Although Sonshu seems to have problems with it as well. Its really no use. You havent made any points that are worth the keyboard you typed them on. And apparently I suck at it too. Oh well.
     
  6. Timmy Boy

    Timmy Boy Man on a Mission

    You were arguing with us and you said "you guyS", therefore you were directing it at me.

    How?

    I have, you just keep avoiding them, just like every other time. Don't just tell me to get some ninpo experience, we're having a debate here, either you're into it or you aren't.
     
  7. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    I answer all your questions. They eventually get chipped away at, all the way down to the same question "How do you ______" or "Why do you ______" and the only thing I can think of is to train in ninpo to understand it. "You have to feel it." Ugh, thats so lame. Unfortunetly its true.
     
  8. NaughtyKnight

    NaughtyKnight Has yellow fever!

    Funny how every other style has no problem debating their style. We dont need to train in Ninjustu to understand what your'e talking about, a punch is a punch.
     
  9. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    Ok you're right. Even though every single person I have talked to over years that understands ninpo agrees that a punch ISNT punch, whatever. You know more about it than I do. I already explained how its different, you didnt accept it, game over. Nothing more can be said.
     
  10. NaughtyKnight

    NaughtyKnight Has yellow fever!

    You are seriously a cop out. Dont even bother debating if you cant bring anything to the table.
     
  11. GojuKJoe

    GojuKJoe Valued Member

    Siphus, you can't just make a point and back it by saying that you're the only one that gets it. Why is it so hard for you to consider that you might be wrong? Like you said, Sonshu has done ninpo, or ninjutsu or whatever it is, and even he disagrees with you, so maybe it's you that is wrong.

    I'm not sure really why you think a punch is not just a punch, could you tell me which post you explained it in please? (I'm not going to read the whole thread)
     
  12. Taff

    Taff The Inevitable Hulk

    If a punch ISN'T a punch then it's not going to work for you when the chips are down. Why do things have to be overcomplicated? A punch is a punch and if it's any more complex than that, it's probably not worth learning.
     
  13. Timmy Boy

    Timmy Boy Man on a Mission

    So all the people who do your style agree with you, and that's your base for support?

    I agree with NaughtyKnight, people from every other style are happy to explain concepts, but ninpo is the exception for some reason? I don't buy it Siphus, you're just not good at explaining things and you're looking for a way out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2006
  14. TheCount

    TheCount Happiness is a mindset

    If a punch isn't a punch them what the hell is a punch then dude ?

    Ok, so I didn't do huge amounts of ninjutsu, however I learn shed loads in my lessons and kinda regret leaving. Hate to say but unless its an experienced practioner thing, a punch WAS a punch, and a punch did damage and was designed to.
     
  15. Dragon Brush

    Dragon Brush Valued Member

    Taijutsu punches put a bit of a lunge in at the knee--i.e.- have a longer follow-through than a boxing punch, for example. In my experience (which is albeit limitted in Ninjutsu), they are meant to somewhat distract the opponent, while the MAist prepares another technique.

    A lot of Ninjutsu deals with affecting the opponents vision, particularily their ability to spot the preparation of your next attack.

    Siphus, its not that a punch isn't a punch, necissarily. Its that, with Ninpo-Taijutsu applications it sometimes serves more of a purpose.

    *Dons a flame-retardant suit and begins stacking sandbags....*
     
  16. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    This is true, physically. Like I said earlier, besides what is actually involved besides mechanics is its application, like you said. Its more of a distraction. Its NOT like a boxing punch in this way. It is also not like a wing chun punch. It deals with (usually) punches to very weak areas to distract your enemy with lots 'o pain. Even the types of fists differ from extended knuckles to the solar plexus, to thumb extended punches to the neck. These arent meant to knock people out, and would be worthless for a boxer. Comparing the two is silly.

    I'm not trying to cop out, i just know all of the crap that is going to come after the above paragraph, and I'm really tired of trying to prove my worth to people who i dont give a crap about.
     
  17. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    Still, it sounds like you're saying a boxing punch is only thrown in the hope of KO'ing the opponent. Don't forget they are used in as many ways to setup, counter, disrupt an opponent etc.
     
  18. Dragon Brush

    Dragon Brush Valued Member

    I feel like, at this point, people are just trying to find a way to attack Siphus in new ways. Just because you interepret it as that, pgm316, doesn't mean that's what he's saying. All he's saying is that a boxer has little interest in striking pinpoint vitals, etc.
     
  19. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    Not my intention to attack Siphus, only the point about striking tactics and to point out other styles do this to....
     
  20. Dragon Brush

    Dragon Brush Valued Member

    Given, but Ninjutsu strikes still often have different mechanics and intentions than feints and counters in boxing.

    Siphus....how come the MAP Ninjutsu members aren't here backing you up? :eek:
     

Share This Page