Why GM's are great to train under

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by KempoFist, Jan 21, 2008.

  1. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member

    Ya, he still blows me away. I have to say I have never been more proud to be beat up by a 65 year old than I am when I spar my Sifu. Btw, I used to be part of that Portland crew before I went to college. Did you get to meet Sifu John?
  2. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    DO they? Not trying to knock their efforts. However, rehashing the old formula hasn't been working. If you keep failing in business and then repeating the same mistakes; that would not be a business in which I would want to purchase stock or product.

    The grandmasters have an insane amount of knowledge in how to develop great martial artists and nobody is taking that away from them.
  3. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Who is a GM that doesn't deserve his rank?

    Where did I ever say that? I remember telling you that you were promoted too fast to third IMO and that Tyrrell wasn't doing you any favors by giving you that kind of a reputation, but I don't remember saying that I was put off for appearances sake alone. He could have tested me six months after I got there if he wanted to and thought I was up to it, but it would have made me look bad in the long run to everyone else.

    ??? Who ever said that I didn't approve of other branches of Kajukenbo? No. He didn't specify forms, but what makes what you studied under Fescina Kajukenbo? He was brought in due his contributions to Kajukenbo as I recall.

    I think you need to look at your definition of "Directly". If it was "via" then it wasn't directly. If Sijo brought in your former GM, that means it was GM Rich that was directly brought in. How is it that everyone that was formerly under GM Rich suddenly Kajukenbo? Especially since you stopped studying with him and came to this forum to trash him endlessly? I know he's making an effort to learn the curriculum that you are trivializing.
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2008
  4. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

  5. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    For some the old formula is still working. And for others it isn't. Are you to say that the Hui will work for everyone?

    Here is some of what you got out there right now of organizations that claim to be non-political, but unlike the Hui they all cost money. Nevertheless, they are similar to the Hui in idea:

    How is training under a grandmaster any different from rank through any of the above organizations?
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2008
  6. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Good finds Wado. Do you happen to know anything about those organizations successes or failures by chance?
  7. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member


    Nope. I'm not saying that I WAS ready. It was a hypothetical. He COULD have is not saying that he SHOULD have or WOULD. The point being that even if I HAD been ready (which I wasn't) it would have been better to wait till I had been around a while IMO. Even after training there for a year, I had all the techniques to black belt. I was tested for brown belt instead which was the right call IMO (not that I had anything to say about it). Time in the art is an important part of the whole thing. But if you like to take SKK guys who've got blue belts in BJJ and promote them to 3rd under you despite having never trained with you, that's your business. You've already seen the impression that decision made on people.

    If you all think that you're under-ranked and that the only reason that you're not higher up the ladder is politics, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.
  8. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    I see. The real question, Danjo is, did you inhale? And what is the definition of "is"? You running for office soon? With responses like these, I can see you going far :D

    Let me get out my katana so I can cut through the pretentiousness filling up the room. So we back to this debate again? Shall we get out the laundry list of people who have been brought in under other instructors without a day of training? Or would that be political suicide?

    You also forgot the part where the 2nd dan instructor with 9 years of training under his belt, and 2 years of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu training/competition also had to fight for his rank, and that his rank was not officiated until said individual fought MMA to prove his worth.

    Danjo, there are those such as yourself who will pull out certificates and display compliant techniques to show their authenticity. I will kick someones ass, choke them out, and then buy them a beer to show them mine.

    LOL. Under-ranked? Well I personally have told Dan that I am not seeking any rank higher than the one I got now. I just don't care enough. Damned things are more trouble than they are worth. So don't worry Danny, you will soon outrank me, and then perhaps, you can grace me with your presence to impart the knowledge you have gained that I will never have the chance to achieve :rolleyes:
  9. Nuck Chorris

    Nuck Chorris I prefer North South

    If you insist Dan. I am sure Professor Bishop has his standards and you have met those. As James has met my standards. James can no more judge Professor Bishop's standards than you can judge mine. Be sure to remember that.

    Unlike some, I attended last year's gathering. As did James. He got out on the floor and did his thing along with the rest of the Ohana. He wasn't promoted off in some dark closet, it was out in front of the world and Sijo. Those that are important were in attendance and know who he was, knew he was there, and knew that I was going to promote him. If they had a problem, they could tell me then. They didn't. If you have a problem with my promotion, forgive me for not caring. You are a newly promoted black belt to first degree and I have junior students who have been in Kajukenbo longer than you have.
  10. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    I don't know KF, I was curious myself how successful they were and how they changed from the beginning to what they are now.

    I left off the few I found that were selling rank off of ebay... lol

    I do know of two instructors who did join non-political organizations for rank. The first had a falling out with his instructor and went independent for many years before seeking rank through a 3rd party organization. He is very happy with what he did because it allowed him to gain a high enough rank that he could survive as a business. He was something like 2nd degree for a dozen years and what can you do when you have black belts under you that are 1st degree and can't go any higher? Now he is something like 5th degree.

    The other instructor, I'm not sure exactly how he felt about independent ranking... but after many years, he found someone else to go under instead of staying independent. What good is independent rank if you can't find people to train with to teach you the things you missed out on and to continue learning with.

    KF, there is also an unwritten rule that when you switch organizations you get the blessing of your former teacher and organization. All cases when this is not true, IMHO, it is worth the thought that you first go independent (not under any organization) for a bit before you go under a new organization. I don't know how this works with independent organizations, but you know where I'm going... that is that it works best to be independent before joining an independent organization. Otherwise it gets a bit complicated :bang:
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2008
  11. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    LOL @ the Ebay sales. That's pretty sad, and pretty low.

    And to clarify I did not get the blessing from my former instructor, but at the time we were on a very sour note, so I wasn't too concerned. At this point, we've come to accept what it is for what it is, as fighting and mud slinging doesn't serve much of a purpose and is only entertaining for so long. Better to focus on training than politics....yet ironically here I am. :rolleyes:

    I swear if I ever decide to teach again, I'm just awarding to black belt, and ignoring the degrees. You want to know how good or far along my students are? You'll be able to check their fight records on Sherdog. :p
  12. Lily

    Lily Valued Member


    DANjo interpreting things his way:
    DAnjo taking the predictable stab at something totally irrelevant:
    DANjo on the 'good ol' days' and the sad state of today's youth (aka KempoFist):
    DAnjo trying to bait people:
    DAnjo practicing politics and giving away his 1st degree opinion for free:
    DAnjo being the official spokesperson for Sijo:
    DAnjo trying to create fire where there ain't any BBQ:
  13. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    I've seen the video of your "testing" James. Yowza how'd you survive?

    Oh, I'm sure the Kaju folk will clear out some floor space for us if we ever meet up. Then you can show me the new and improved Hui Pupule Kaju in person.
  14. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Nope, like I said, Your standards are your standards.

    Is that the Kajukenbo with or without the curriculum?
  15. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    I have an idea. Since there are only a small handful of Kajukenbo people here, why not start this thread over at the Cafe' and see what the rest of the folks think about Grand Masters and what they do or don't have to contribute? I'm sure James' theories will be met with some enthusiasm.
  16. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Lily not having a clue:

  17. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    I'd like to see it, since to the best of my knowledge it wasn't filmed.

    Oh most definitely :D
  18. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    I don't know. Is it fair to have a discussion about Dan if he can't even post there? Besides it's much more fun to have open discussion without worry of the thread getting locked, moved or trashed.
  19. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Danjo, I gotta say I actually am disgusted; and that's quite an accomplishment.

    Throughout this thread, you've tried to divert off the point, and twist my words. The latest bit there where you're demanding I say which GM's I feel don't deserve their rank....absurd! Where did I say that they didn't deserve their rank? If Sijo awarded it, then they deserve it, and it's not my place to second guess the man. I said that rank is not necessarily indicative of raw skill, and that in many cases -no matter the style of martial art- that rank above 5th degree is mostly honorary for efforts in proliferation and support of the art.

    That does not take anything away from any of the GM's, but your idea that people already of master rank 5th, 6th and 7th degree, have to go now re-invent the wheel they've been rolling on just so that they can be recognized and advance under another instructor who may not do what they do is unfair if you ask me -especially so for those who may be on bad terms with a major influence in the high ranks, which would dissuade others from taking him in. At that point it is about image and not substance.

    I've joked in the past about you having an agenda, but now I'm starting to second guess myself.
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2008
  20. DAnjo

    DAnjo Valued Member

    Is this not it? If not, what the heck is it?


    We're on then. I'll bring the video camera. Loser buys the beer. :)

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