Why fence left handed?

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by Lad_Gorg, Jul 21, 2013.

  1. Lad_Gorg

    Lad_Gorg Valued Member

    Simple question. Why do fencers hold the foil and epee (I believe) in the left hand and not the right hand which is more natural?

    Also why is sabre different from the other two weapons that they hold the sword in their right hands?
     
  2. Guitar Nado

    Guitar Nado Valued Member

    Have you been watching the Princess Bride on repeat? :eek:

    Based on my tiny amount of fencing experience in college, I don't think it is at all the way you are describing. But I know there are some fencers here...
     
  3. Lad_Gorg

    Lad_Gorg Valued Member

    Can't say I ever watched the movie.

    I think I'm confused then. I remember hearing that the rules were like that before, but I can't seem to find that source anywhere. And I just looked at some of the 2012 games, and competitors are using both hands. Ahem, so nevermind xD
     
  4. Guitar Nado

    Guitar Nado Valued Member

    I highly recommend it for the fencing scenes alone.
     
  5. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Because I know something you don't know...
     
  6. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    great fight scenes, not to mention its worth the price of the film for the misuse of the word inconceivable alone :)
     
  7. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    is that why you are smiling....
     
  8. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Most top level fencers are left handed. The pathway nerves take the body is not exactly symmetrical as they have to be routed around different organs. The length of the pathway to the left hand is marginally shorter than the length to the right.

    At the very top levels were every little helps this gives left handers an advantage.

    "Oh, there's something I ought to tell you. " ....
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2013
  9. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    Huh?

    If you're left-handed, chances are you'll fence better with the weapon in your left hand. If you're right-handed, hold it in your right hand. It's really that simple when it comes to one-handed weapons. It seems you've just seen a bunch of left-handed fencers. Trust me, only about 10% of fencers are left-handed, just like the rest of the population. At the upper ratings, left-handed fencers tend to rise percentage-wise since few right-handers have extensive experience fencing lefties, but the reverse is not true. Lefties optimize their game to fight righties and have the advantage there.

    -Mark
     
  10. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    -Mark
     
  11. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do....
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2013
  12. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Despite the incredible desire to just make Princess Bride jokes constantly, I'm going to answer seriously, as the forum's modern competitive fencer (and a left-hander at that).

    In modern fencing, left-handers fence with their left hand in all three weapons. Right-handers fence with their right hand in all three weapons. You need your natural hand to be your fencing hand for precise control. I've never met someone who is right-handed but fences with their left hand (or vice versa).

    There is some advantage to being left-handed (LHers are more used to fencing RHers than vice versa), so left-handers tend to be statistically overrepresented in international competition.
     
  13. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    The only exception to this is with two-handed weapons (longsword, French Baton, etc). I know a longsword fencer who is a leftie but does longsword right-handed, but rapier and dussack (both one-handed) as a leftie.

    Kendoka all fence rightie, as it's a mandated rule.

    Personally, I do everything left-handed, though I've had to develop some reasonable right-handed facility for teaching righties. I can get by as a righty, but it ain't pretty.

    I got to fence military sabre against two other lefties at Longpoint, which was a treat for all of us.

    That being said, I bat right-handed. Go fig.

    -Mark
     
  14. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    I did a little research and found augments for both the - unsymmetrical nervous patways (it was wiring of brain hemispheres in the example i found) and for the benefits of scarcity arguments. I found the abstract bellow but could not find a public version of the full paper.

    In fencing, what gives left-handers the edge? Views from the present and the distant past.
    Harris LJ.
    Source

    Department of Psychology, Michigan State University, East Lansing, Michigan 48824, USA.
    Abstract

    Recent studies show that in the sport of fencing left-handers have an advantage over right-handers. This was recognised by fencing masters as early as the sixteenth century. They also agreed that the advantage was due to left-handers' numbers-that being a minority gave them more opportunities to compete against right-handers than right-handers had against them. Fencing masters today have reached the same conclusion, as have laterality researchers, who see the advantage as an example of what is now called a "frequency-dependent" effect. However, some researchers have also suggested other possibilities that relate the advantage to natural differences in ability. This article presents a sampling of views of fencing masters from the past, along with a summary and analysis of explanations, old and new.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 22, 2013
  15. Lad_Gorg

    Lad_Gorg Valued Member

    I think I assumed this because a lot of the fencers in the Olympics where lefties. But I still remember reading it somewhere, I guess I just had a brain fart xD
     
  16. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Do you play baseket ball, tennis, golf, ... on both hands?

    It makes sense to train "general" techniques on both sides, but only train "special" techniques on one side only.
     
  17. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Do you have any experience fencing? The original poster is asking about modern competitive fencing, and I have never heard of anyone trying to be able to fence modern competitive fencing ambidextrously. It's just not done in this sport.
     
  18. LeaFirebender

    LeaFirebender Ice Bear has ninja stars

    I love how this tread decended completely into Princess Bride quotes. I'm proud to be par of this forum.

    Same with baseball
     
  19. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    Indeed. Modern competitive fencing is a highly specialized skillset, with everyone optimizing their games for that context alone. No competitive fencer worries about defending their life with it, so there is no advantage to training the off hand in case of a real-enounter injury.

    FWIW, one of my opponents at Longpoint 2013 switched hands repeatedly during the bout between points. It made no difference to me... I wasn't thrown off in the least. In a sporting context it simply doesn't matter. If you injure your hand in a sporting environment just go home. Your half-baked off hand will not hold its own against everyone else's highly trained dominant hands.

    Were I worried about about real-life encounters with swords, I would train my off hand a lot more than I do. The stresses there are different, with auditory exclusion, self-defecation, tunnel-vision and simply going "code black" and the like being equalizers. But I have no duels scheduled this lifetime. ;)

    -Mark
     
  20. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Yes! I do train how to use weapon which is more than just fencing.

    As I have said, the "special" techniques should be trained one side only. How to "use a weapon to kill" is not considered as "general" techniques. The reason is simple. You may have 80% confidence on one hand, and 70% confidence on the other. At life and death situation, that 10% will make a big difference.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2013

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