*looks back at thread to see exactly what was said* It is true that you said is that TKD doesn't "need" to adopt Muay Thai rules "to be effective," which is what you're referring to, but you also suggested an adoption of Muay Thai-esque rules, which is what I was remembering. http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92499&page=15 But that's neither here nor there. I was just pointing out that, honestly, it seems like you're going from forum to forum telling everyone how Muay Thai is Teh Awesome!!! And it's getting old. Just my opinion. I think you're taking the name too literally. Why stop at Muay Thai, if you're going to rely on the "all styles" in the title? It doesn't say "all striking styles," it says "all styles," so why exclude grappling? But it doesn't say "all empty-handed styles," so why exclude weapons?
Well now that I'm thinking about it an Iaido vs. TKD or archery vs chun match would make for great entertainment.
Do we actually know how much wing chun Bruce learnt, I heard he didn't even get to the second form. Which in trad wing chun ranking isn’t very high.
Saber beats kendo! Japanese TV proves it! [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ST1wRzfgmI"]YouTube- Kendo vs Fencing[/ame] :hat:
That comment on the other thread was about scoring criteria - notrulesets. Theres a big difference. I was talking about scoring based on effect rather than touch - as the rest of the unquoted material explained. It doesn't necessaarily have to be "full muay thia rules". People get really antsy about people mentioning muay thai a lot and I don't know why its a subject that makes so many people get really defensive. At the end of the day I could have said one of a whole load of other striking arts with rules nearly identical to muay thia. Those other arts dont go "oh noes!!!! we have the same rules as those filthy thai boxers! lets change em!" They came by those rulesets the same way the thais themselves came by THEIR ruleset - by saying, when it comes to striking, this is a pretty definitive ruleset. As it is I agree "all styles" implies MMA. I think they're trying to make it an exclusively striking event but even that is clearly biased heavily in favor of people who come from a TMA background that trains for something like continous semi contact sparring events. The ruleset basically looks like some of the more common TKD rulesets only with the allowance of low kicks. Only dont go crazy with the low kicks or you'll get a point taken off apparently.
Mmmmn, nice thanks for setting me straight. I'm not lying about what i read tho, i did read it somewhere but i honestly can't remember where. I'm pretty sure i read that one of his american students said that he practiced the form up to 8 times a day. There is a lil video footage where he does some of the form and pics which i believe were taken in america of him doing sil lim tao. There's pics of him on the dummy when he was a lyoung and a little older and i'm sure they were in america too. There's also footage of his interview/ audition where he does some forms. It's possible that he stopped the dummy and forms in his later years, perhaps his last couple of years. Oh yeah, i just wanted to say that Bruce probably talked about the difference of how boxing gyms trained guys and how he used boxing to train himself.
Don't believe a word his students tell you. Most of them are so busy riding the gravy train to richville that they'll tell you anything that makes Bruce Lee look better in the eyes of the public. Anything that builds up his mystique and legend only serves to make them richer by association. Call me cynical but I've seen a lot of his student's, as well as his own, attempts at bag/pad work and occasionally sparring/fighting. It's usually laughable.
Though this is only my own observation, I do find it extremely interesting that up to Bruce's little legendary street fight all he trained in was Wing Chun. Once he actually got into a real fight, he began incorporating a lot of boxing into his training. Coincidence?
What exactly are you talking about? Stories from friends who saw him in street fights only using boxing? I'm not saying Wing Chun is better than boxing or that Bruce thought that, he used both. Bruces favourite 'game' was in close fighting, trapping Wing Chun style. This is where he excels. As one of his students said once he 'stuck' on you it was almost impossible to get in a hit. Even with a blindfold on Bruce could stop any telling hit. He was the type of guy that could get you everytime with the same technique and hitting him was considered a lucky hit. All i'm saying is that Wing Chun is effective and that Bruce is a prime example of that. He put in the work and it paid off.
I think the main liars are the ones who have never met Bruce and said they they trained undrer him so they can teach JKD. I doubt his firens would lie, atleast not about what i mentioned in my reply to you. Doing th sil lim tao form and using the dummy barely seems like mystique to me. I don't know where you live but the footage of him sparring is far from laughable and the same goes for his bag work. I honestly think you know very little about Bruce and then you say all these things like you know something i don't. One of his students has said that what the MMA guys are doing today wouldn't bother Bruce in the slightest. Dan Inasanto said that if Bruce competed in boxing he would easily be in the top three. I choose to believe it. Bruce was a good guy and he would've made honest frienships with his students so i doubt they would go on telling lies.It's the guys who claim they have learned under Bruce that are lying. In all of my research it is people who actually put down Bruce because they want to look like they are really good and that they know what they are talking about.
Bruce Lee was primarily a WC fighter up to when he had his fight with Wong Jack Man in 1964. From that point on he began forming his JKD philosophy. I find that very interesting.
This thread should be changed from: Why does everyone put this art down to Why does everyone put ANY art down
It's not that people are defensive. It's that it gets old. Every few months, someone comes along and has to tell EVERY karate guy and kung fu guy and taekwondo guy that Muay Thai is Teh Awesome!!! It gets old. It's something that we've all heard before again and again and again and again and again. And lo and behold, you've got two threads going--one in the taekwondo forum, one in the kung fu forum--explaining how awesome Muay Thai is and how other arts could benefit from adopting X and Y and Z from Muay Thai. It's a broken record we've all heard before. That's why you're getting a negative reaction that you're interpreting as defensiveness.
It is interesting. It's also interesting to note that Bruce had learned other kung fu styles before that and that before JKD came along he taught Jun Fan Kung Fu, which was his personal style of kung fu.
Not that I'm encouraging this thread to go on or anything (as frankly, I got bored of it from page 2 onwards) but yes Kuma, Bruce did start incorporating a lot of other techniques (not just boxing) after that fight BUT All of his students were taught Jun Fan Gung Fu and then they were taught to expand from that themselves- so obviously Bruce advocated the teachings of Wing Chun to a point. Just a little note- I don't understand why this has to be a "my art is superior and yours isn't" forum. Opinion is valid, but the thing with voicing opinion is that you have to be able to accept other peoples opinions as well. Finally, bringing Bruce Lee into this argument- especially as about 80% of us don't know nearly enough about the man to cite him as an authority is just low. Slagging him off, based on youtube footage is even lower! (BTW- just because I've quoted Kuma's message here, I am in no way targeting my comments at him, as he seems to be one of the good guys).
Or why doesn't everyone crosstrain and exchange ideas rather than insults. below a seminar in which I taught judoka,jujtsuka,kendoka,karateka,boxers and numerous schools of aikido.The photo shows about half of the attendance. EVRYONE LEARNED FROM EACH OTHER.Face to face.NO ONE KNOWS EVERYTHING.If you have nothing to learn best give up.
This is because many people don't really state that it's not styles per say but training methodologies that make a person an effective fighter or not. It's not in what you train but how you train in it.
