Why do we fall, or emphasize falling ?

Discussion in 'Kuk Sool' started by hwarang cl, Sep 7, 2006.

  1. hwarang cl

    hwarang cl The Evil Twin

    Just curious on what ya'lls opinions are. Why does KSW have so many falling techniques, aren't we by praticing hyung trying to offset, as KSN would say god's mistake by giving us two legs and not four.If we are supposed to be sooo balanced we do we fall? I asked this question once in BB class and only one person said " we fall to condition are bodies, or better to prepare our bodies for impact". If we all were in grade school I would've given this person a gold star. Now this is only MY OPINION, but I believe we fall to do just that.If you think about it, it makes sense. As BB we all should be able to fall on to concrete several times and not get hurt, so assuming we all can do this, what if any damage would occur if say a side kick,round house kick do? Think about front fall, where does the majority of the impact occur? On the forearms right?, so maybe front fall is conditioning the forearms to be used for say ship ja maki applications. Just my thoughts, what are yours? Does this make sense or is it all bs?
  2. Silentmonk

    Silentmonk The Blue Donkster!!

    Always thought it would be kind of difficult to practice techniques if your partner couldn't fall???????

    So I personally would say the primary reason for practicing falling is so your partner can then do their techniques. The conditioning aspect would therefore be a by product
  3. ember

    ember Valued Member

    Some of it is pure self-protection, to turn tucking & rolling into a reflexive move so that you're less likely to get hurt.

    Did you see my 1st attempt at breaking in February? I know PSBN Alex got a front-line view. Jump spin kick into what felt like a perfect side fall. Got right up and tried again.

    It's also useful for falling off a horse.
  4. KSW_123

    KSW_123 Valued Member

    I think hwarang_cl and silentmonk are right. Can't practice techniques completely without a fall is about as true as it gets. On the other hand why jump in the air as high as you can a gazzillion times by yourself? Seems like body conditioning would be a good reason.
  5. Bahng Uh Ki

    Bahng Uh Ki Valued Member

    All of those are good reasons to practice falling, but I think the best reason is so that you don't get hurt when you do fall. Practice falling teaches the body how to fall, how to land, so REAL falls are less likely to cause damage.

    I believe even the infirm should be taught falling. Even if they do slow sit down falls for practice, I think they would be less likely to get hurt when they fall. Aren't most injuries with old frail people due to falls?
  6. Silentmonk

    Silentmonk The Blue Donkster!!

    because you need to practice anything a lot of times to get it right. And the better you get at falling the faster and harder your partner can apply a technique because you know how to fall without hurting yourself. That way they can do it again and again.

    The more you practice something afterall the better you get at it and doing it without your limb locked up is safer than getting it wrong with your joint locked and therefore creating more damage.Also if you can do something high and acrobatically its easier to break down to a simple quick motion.

    Conditioning comes from the exercise, I'm not sure the exercise is meant to be used to condition tho.

    The example used for instance about the blocking, sure you will end up with desensitised arms however you haven't actually taught the neural pattern and response to create the block. So therefore I'm sure if there was a need to condition for this there would be a better way of doing it than stopping your face falling onto the ground..... perhaps actually blocking kicks?????????
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2006
  7. KSW_123

    KSW_123 Valued Member

    In our class we tend to put the heavy repetition of falling with the technique practice. At white belt level they go slow and easy. The better they get the faster they go. This has worked quite well, so I don't think it is necessary to do heavy reps of falling by yourself to get good at technique falling. We always start by teaching the falls seperately but attempt to integrate it with technique as quickly as possible.

    As far as conditioning, I was told that the purpose was to condition the internal organs to become accustomed to impact.
  8. Silentmonk

    Silentmonk The Blue Donkster!!

    Ok, yeah I'll go with that, that I can see. Its a far better way of doing that than standing there and having someone turning back kick you in the stomach. Breathing patterns and muscle tensing I can see. :)

    But on a footnote to that if you are doing loads of falls for all the techniques, its not necessary to do loads of falls without techniques to condition your body either ;)
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2006
  9. JSun

    JSun Valued Member

    I was under the impression break falls were initiated to save the joint. Better to fall in a controlled fashion than be thrown on your head, right?

    So who on here works on techniques from the prone position? If you fall right, why not roll the break fall over into a counter technique?
  10. Grippereeno

    Grippereeno New Member

    Were told the primary need for falling in the correct way is to protect primarily the skull and vertabral column (supposed to have minimal possible contact with the floor during any fall) secondarily the internal organs with everything else utilsed to achieve this. For instance you would sacrifice a broken finger etc not to land on your back awkwardly. Other affects of falling however include conditioining and the other aspects outlined by other people..
  11. TXKukSoolBB

    TXKukSoolBB Valued Member

    :D :D Been there...done that! :D :D
  12. KSW_123

    KSW_123 Valued Member

    This is where the fun starts, and a little bit of risk. I am trying to force my oppenent to the prone position, he is trying to roll out. KBS #6 is a good example. If he is not a good faller then one risk is that he will roll over his face instead of the shoulder. I am trying to control him into the prone position after all.

    Bangh Uh Ki had a great point as well. Self defense in broad term should include anything that can hurt you. Tripping can hurt you.
  13. ember

    ember Valued Member

    :eek: Faceplants are NOT good. Just this summer one of my regular partners ended up faceplanting instead of hajen nak bub. Fortunately, she wasn't hurt, but it was pretty scary. We'd just been reviewing hajen nak bubs in SWAT about the month before.

    Shoulder's are also not good. My little sister broke her collarbone playing Ultimate Frisbee in college.
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2006
  14. hwarang cl

    hwarang cl The Evil Twin

    why would we be walking, to quote Mad Monk"walking is for sissies". LOL. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
  15. KSW_123

    KSW_123 Valued Member

    I like to practice techniques hard and mess around to see how to get out of them etc... But it is not for everyone, faceplants do suck, and if you play this game they will most likely happen.

    In an effor to make falling safer, I believe judo guys score better points when the guy does a "correct" fall. This is smart because it allows them to spar with resistance without breaking each others necks. So I think that would be step 1.

    Step 2 would be to practice the counters in a more controlled environment.

    Just a thought.

    Jsun, if I lived anywhere near you, I'd come over and practice.
  16. ember

    ember Valued Member

    Speed's fine, when you're ready for it. We've done techniques fast before, it's mostly a matter of practice and working up to it.
  17. JKN-Taylor

    JKN-Taylor New Member

    Another thing to think about...

    During one of our "precision days" KJN mentioned something to the effect of "[to master falling, you move in a way/speed that the thrower feels no resistance (or can't feel you)]".

    I've been trying to figure out exactly what that means and figure out what it would take to fall in ways that I would feel no pressure on my arm/wrist/joint. It's really freaking hard, lol. (and sometimes causes me to neglect other aspects of my falling technique, like the landing >.>)

    I can imagine the advantages of that... your opponent not being able to feel the feedback you your arm... you not feeling the pressure of the lock. I guess it also potentially puts you in control, setting you up for possible counters, ect.

    Ah-well... until I figure it out I'll just enjoy the free body conditioning. *~_^
  18. hwarang cl

    hwarang cl The Evil Twin

    On hayjung nak bub you REALLY have to kick. Theres no secret to it, he tells us everytime we do nakbub to kick as hard as you can. also you might want to start/continue on your jumping pratice(start with two mats and jump vertically up to them. when you land, try not to land hard)my OLD partner(Jeremy Fleishman) and I used to do this for an hour each day. when you can do this and land softly add a mat and continue, keep repeating till you run out of mats, which in clearlake its IMPOSSIBLE. :D :D . Also you might want to do alot of ab excercises, because the abs are what pulls your legs up!!! Another thing to do is the 1400 kick routine. All are good excercise and will improve ALMOST everything you do.

    Goodluck !!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
  19. JSun

    JSun Valued Member

    Lord knows I need it. None of the people I work out with outside of class practice Kuk Sool, so it's hard to bounce ideas off of them that deal strictly with Kuk Sool Won techniques. Class is so structured it's almost impossible to find time to really step aside with someone ranked above me and just pick their brain. We have an hour of open mats on certain days, but so many people take advantage of it all the instructors are spread pretty thin.

    The problem I run into when I try to anticipate the joint lock and breakfall out of it is I'll jump ahead of the lock. I guess that's fine if one's looking to counter a technique, but when in a demo it feels like it screws the flow of tech up. I think I have the most difficulty with front falls. ASMS #4, for instance. It's either get my face shoved in the mat or jump ahead of the arm bar and loose the effectivness of my partner's lock. I just can't seem to find a happy medium yet. Any suggestions?
  20. ember

    ember Valued Member

    I'm trying to get our Sunday morning practices going again, 7 am, on the Galveston beach. When we did this before, most people ended up leaving about 9ish to get back home, showered, & over to church. I think this time it'll be about once a month rather than every week.

    I know some people also meet at 4 pm on Sundays at a local park.

    There's a Yahoogroup for planning these things, though I don't think I have any admin rights on it. And a lot of it ends up being talked face-to-face at the dojang. But if you're interested, PM me and I can see about putting you in the loop.
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2006

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