I'd be curious how many women actually train WC in comparison to men. I suspect the numbers are still incredibly heavily skewed towards men. Even here in Hong Kong where it's incredibly common to see WC peeps going through the motions in the park... I've never once seen a woman. I really don't think it's a male vs. female thing. If that's the excuse that some WC schools are using they really need to get out of the dark ages. I know any number of women who would pound that idea clean out of their head. Trying to somehow to break down classes along the gender lines doesn't really strike me as all that great of an idea. We've got plenty of women training in the places I train (obviously it's not WC)... and to be honest... it doesn't make that much of a difference. In fact I've noticed whenever I'm running a conditioning class... the women actually put in far more effort than the men do and spend less time bitching and moaning about it.
It's humorus to see sport MA compared to street MA. I don't know what world you live in but in our school we only train for real life street level combat mentality. As a matter of fact, we had to throttle back our training methods because the normal "american" mentality of students today couldn't hack them. What a change for someone when you take out "beat up" and put in "death" for a possible outcome. I have seen WC men in real street action and saw the results for myself... so I know it works for what is needed in life. The way the art was meant to be. You take any martial art out of context and it's sure to fail. It's delusional to take a funny car to a nascar track and then complain about it's performance. I respect all martial arts. I wish we could have real unity in MA and get away from the competitiveness and pettiness that ruins the MA community as a whole.
You know,some women are actually capable of training as hard as men. As Slip says,I don't think it's simply down to gender.
One girl that trained at the CLF school with me & Chimp trained harder than any of the male students. She was also a good kickboxer & once to my shame I had her beat-up one of the male students in sparring (he was twice her build & size), because he was throwing his weight around in class.
Su Lin, there are some women in my system that are very good, (master level) but the majority of students are male. yet, the same set of principles that work for women, also work for men, and vice versa... so saying this is a male or female art wouldn't be accurate, although this is a yin style kung fu. (mostly soft or internal martial art) Wing Chun originates from a life of Taoism, so an understanding of that certainly helps. My sifu tailors each students training based upon their personal attributes, so no two people train just alike anyway. I personally like training with women. Women have their own outstanding attributes. For one, I've found women can be more brutal and hidden than men, making sensitivity training more of a challenge to stay open and receptive. Also, GM Cook has trained extensively with Stephen Hayes, and is well versed on the training of female ninjitsu, so the females in our system recieve knowledge that us men never are allowed.
Dear God, please with this, man. Unless you're literally training out IN the street, while simulating the same glass, concrete and a random knife occurrence, you are NOT training for real street action. So get off it. I hate to be the one to tell you, but these types of arguments that you’re trying to bring to the table are not only highly unrealistic, but dead and buried now. If anything, they’re more comedic at this point. Fighting in the street and fighting in a ring are switches of mindsets, not techniques or entire martial arts unto themselves. This myth that there’s a difference between the two needs to be put to rest, seriously. And, the people claiming that their said arts are street savvy or too deadly for competition are completely full of it. Making yourself available to competition is the most profound way of testing and proving that which what you say and practice is indeed fact. Unless you’re deliberately fighting for points, the application of techniques are virtually the same. It’s only a set attitude and intention that changes for the street.
LOL, you couldn't make it up! Oh... wait... ! The more wing chun's defenders come out the more I'm hating it myself!
"Wing Chun originates from a life of Taoism.." No it does not. It could be argued that Confucianism has an impact on Wing Chun philosphy. As for the female to male thing, of the WC schools I have checked out in my local area (i.e most of them) they are usally all male or have maybe 1 or 2 women at the most.
I know special ops who train in Wing Chun They love it and use it /cough along with 2 to 5 other styles.
I used to take Wing Chun. The problem I had with it was that the system was based on scientific principles in an effort to weed out all the "flowery" crap in martial arts, but they did it so much to the point where it is ironically flowery. Sparring wasn't so much an issue, our school was located in the ghettos of Baltimore, and filled with people who just wanted to fight each other. It sounds great in theory.
Well, thanks for sharing. Not exactly sure what your point is, but it sure was somewhat interesting. I'm really confused where you "see" this art in action other than boob tube, and what makes you feel qualified to make such brazen claims about effectiveness of an art that your not even qualified to teach. As far as competitions go, if there's any rules, it isn't realistic. It's a controlled enviroment, Period. Combat has no rules. How many true masters of any martial arts do you see in the competitive realm? I'm sure they're really just scared to face up. Who as a martial artist worrys about competitive nuance and applications anyway? A sport Sure, use your ratchet as a hammer. That's another means to an end. Not what this art was designed for anyway. Does that make me think less of Wing Chun? HAH. No. I've put my art to use in in bar security, personal security, and with a street watch organization here were there were actual foot patrols. I wasn't watching, I participated. For many westerners who study Wing Chun, all they can ever hope to do is mentally assimilate the techniques because they are so "full" of knowledge they can never manage to make the simplicity work for them. They are so tied up in the western ideals that they can't let go of false belief systems they've been programmed with. (IE.. overcome strength with more strength) I can tell you from teaching experience that yes, people are the main failure for competent use of martial arts. Any of them! Gee, wouldn't everyone be doing excellent if it were easy. Do people actually believe they can truly learn a kung fu style out of a book? Do they also believe that just showing up to class will lead them to excellence by osmosis? Seems hard style systems are easier for westerners to understand so they are more easily adapted, whereas internal based systems are founded on philosophies quite opposite of western ideals so therefore much more difficult to absorb and apply. Who's ego is stroked by downing any martial art or artist anyway? Different strokes for different folks. Believing I have to prove myself or my art to anyone is a waste of energy and truly usless. There is only one I have to impress. Wing Chun has principals that are 400 years old and older. I'm sure these people were so ignorant and blind that they held onto a system that is so usless and impotent.. for so long. It's a good thing we all have our own path to walk, isn't it...
Seeing two people in a ring struggling like teenage boys till one messes up and the other gets the advantage is like glorified WWF. There is no art to it. How does the outcome matter if your prostituting your art to get there? Sounds like politicians who care nothing of the way they get what they want as long as they get it. I would be embarrassed to call any of these representative of martial arts. Nor is it applicable to everyday life. So everyone who isn't a 6'2 220lbs alpha build, and hasn't the resources to train like a prize fighter should just forget the art? We all just normally are built like that? everyone? And if you can't compete in that realm then you and your art are a failure? One who thinks martial arts are merely for fighting has missed another whole world out there. It's sad that people think they need to create a whole thread devoted to hating any art. Especially when the argument comes from those who have no experience to even begin to question it. Your opinion is just that. Yours. I would question where I was at in my art and in my personal growth in the art when I devote time to sitting and writing rationale as to why I hate something rather than trying to concentrate on my own progress in my chosen art. I'm not here to defend Wing Chun, I'm here to say that this discussion holds no merit as far as ANY martial arts are concerned, and only serves as a bad argument which spreads ignorance and prejudice to those who come here for pertinent information and help. Is that what you come here for?
You sir, are genius of the century. Are you aware that the sport has weight classes, genius? BTW, I'm 175lbs.
