Which Weapon to Carry for Self Defence

Mushroom · Nov 18, 2018

EdiSco said: ↑

Just out of interest, when did the wild west days of bouncing end in the UK? I also do believe that UK is FAR less violent than it used to be in the 90's and even mid 000's esp. Scotland
Click to expand...

When certain "top" companies even had to follow SIA regulation/privatisation..and pretty much anyone can be a Bouncer. And gone was the "I'll grab whatever giant mate I have and dump him at the door for a couple hundred"

In regards to violence increase in the UK. Thats a different discussion. We know of a lot more violence thanks to social media and widely available visual and audio technology. And also better education in regards to violence and Law, helped the general populace in recognising their rights.

Hans Larrave · Feb 23, 2019

SWC Sifu Ben said: ↑

First it should be noted that I am not a legal expert especially concerning areas where laws do not pertain to me. As such this will be a more general answer to the question and covering this question on several topics. Nothing in here should be considered legal advice and I would like to note that for civilians I consider any weapon as an adjunct to empty handed skills and for the most part unnecessary. Remember that knowledge weighs nothing, lower levels of force will more often be what are needed, and (unless you're an amputee) you can't forget your body parts at home.

Know The Law

If it is not legal to carry a weapon in your country, stop right now. Carrying something which is purpose made as a weapon in a region where it is prohibited can lead to jail time, even if you use it to save your own life. In some regions you may be able to legally carry an item which could be pressed into service as a weapon like a folding pocket knife, heavy duty pen, keychain, etc. More on these improvised weapons later.
If it is legal to carry purpose made weapons your search becomes much easier. Again be aware of what you can legally carry as some states in the U.S. for example will allow you to carry a firearm but not a knife. Our Legal Knowledge area has a section with prohibited (non-firearm) weapons in Canada.
For both groups of people be aware of how you carry. A knife legally carried but slipped under the shirt could be considered a concealed weapon and land you in hot water.

Get Trained

This section is very simple. If you don't have training with a particular item be it a gun, knife, taser, pepper spray, or any other tool... DO NOT CARRY IT! You are only creating more danger to yourself.
You need to be able to draw, retain, and use anything you carry effectively. That means consistent and regular training. Training once or twice a year is insufficient for something you carry everyday for intended use in a high pressure, high stakes, andrenaline fuelled situation.
If you don't have training with your force multiplier of choice you're also going to risk not deploying it when appropriate. This might mean drawing too early, drawing too late, or freezing under pressure after you've already introduced the weapon. The rule of thumb here is to only carry things with which you have enough training to make effective decisions on deployment and where you're able to use them confidently and competently under pressure.

Use the Right Level of Force

This is an issue of some debate and it goes right along with training. Some people think you should carry the highest level of force available to you while others think that is overkill. The level of force necessary certainly depends on your region and should be proportionate to the threats you're likely to encounter.

Improvised weapons
If you can't carry a weapon you may be tempted to resort to carrying a tactical pen or any one of the self defence keychains on the market; DON'T. If you found it any prosecuting attorney can find it online. The fact that is is marketed for self defence makes it a purpose built weapon which means your plea of "but it's just a pen/flashlight/keychain" will fall on deaf ears. The words tactical, weapon, protection, strike, and self defence are just some of the words you should avoid on any product you actually want to use for those purposes. Unless you can carry something which would not be questioned, don't carry it at all. Even something like a big carabiner could draw attention by a prosecutor when they ask why you had nothing clipped on it and had it in your pocket.
This brings me to my next point...

The best weapon is not a weapon at all
If you carry something whose only use is a weapon you are likely to forget it, begrudge it's weight and bulge, and probably never draw it day to day. Something which has a function as a tool is something you are likely to always pack, have in the same place, draw more often, and which you have legitimate reason to carry.
I use my pocket knife, a Spyderco Paramilitary 2, at least once a day to open a package or even just remove loose threads from my uniform. Every time I pull it out that is practice drawing it. Because I use it so often it's always in the same place and I never forget to put it there. I would bet money that I can draw that tool faster under pressure than anyone who carries something like a dagger and almost never pulls it out because they carry it for self defence.

More detailed considerations:
armor - take a look at the v-42 commando knife. It was designed to be long enough to pierce a Russian greatcoat. Now take a look at a karambit. If you live in a cold and snowy place like I do you have to consider that much of the year people will be wearing heavy coats and/or heavy clothing. Impact tools, short/curved blades, and tasers are going to be a whole lot less effective in reaching their way through these layers. Thankfully for batons most people don't bundle up their thighs.
environment - if you're likely to be shot at a knife isn't going to help you much unless you're close and even then it's not a great option. If you're using pepper spray in a region where it tends to be windy you could be getting a face full instead of your attacker(s). And again for cold regiond you will want something you can operate while wearing gloves.
weight & bulk - if it's big and heavy you won't want to carry it and will probably eventually get rid of it anyway. No one is going to carry those huge Cold Steel folders; not for long anyway.
carry & draw - where can you carry it, how easy is it to draw and deploy, will it be comfortable to carry, and will it be concealed while carrying.
ergonomics - is it comfortable for you personally to hold and operate. Everyone's hands are built a little differently and people like different things.
handedness - yes lefties some things are just not made for you

Originally from the blog of Soaring Wing Chun Kung Fu Scarborough
Click to expand...

Spoken in the truest martial sense SiFU Ben. Excellent societal and personal points. Nice to know you.

Hans Larrave · Feb 23, 2019

Tom bayley said: ↑

This article makes no reference to the way that the choice of weapon escalates violence.

Knives and guns are almost useless for less than lethal combat. Drawing a knife or a gun states your intent to kill the opponent. A short stick is highly effective in less than lethal combat. Drawing a short stick is not an automatic escalation to lethal violence.

Choosing to carry a knife means choosing to use lethal force if the weapon is drawn. Choosing to carry a stick allows the choice of less than lethal force if the weapon is drawn. This should be thought about before you decide what type of weapon (if any) to carry.
Click to expand...

Great advice!

Hans Larrave · Feb 23, 2019

A) Train to disarm a knife at first glance; when its being pulled out. Find a partner to practice with. Wrap the partners hand as to not break it. Drill, drill, drill. Upper body disarms and also hook kicks.
B) Firearm disarms. I'd say 6 months of drilling with a pro, ex-mil, or LEO. I like both Kali and Krav Maga methods I've seen, which to me are believable. I cannot practice or condone things I can't believe. This is your life, and may die in the process, or within the struggle, your attackers firearm may go off into a crowd or car windshield.... God forbid. Remember that in extreme cases, such as abductions of women or adolescents under a firearm, a disarm attempt is less of a gamble than ending up in a van or trunk. If it really does not yet feel like 2nd nature to disarm a firearm assailant, chances are you're gambling with your life over a rolex or your lambo keys Be honest with yourself boss-player!
Also, be perceptive about timelines! I just commented on a thread from 2016 like a jackass!

My two cents, if you can remove "weapons" from any situation, then you are most likely to survive incidents without regrets. You know the saying, live by the sword, die by the sword. If you're carrying something you may give off an air of confidence, unless, as Sifu Ben stated, your conscious mind considers it a tool and not a weapon.

Monkey_Magic · Feb 28, 2019

Hans Larrave said: ↑

chances are you're gambling with your life over a rolex or your lambo keys
Click to expand...

I wouldn’t worry about the keys to some cheap Lamborghini, but nobody’s getting the keys to my cloud without a fight.

My advice is to never leave home on a pilgrimage without your magical staff. It’s the ideal everyday carry.

Donald McIntyre · Mar 3, 2019

SWC Sifu Ben said: ↑

First it should be noted that I am not a legal expert especially concerning areas where laws do not pertain to me. As such this will be a more general answer to the question and covering this question on several topics. Nothing in here should be considered legal advice and I would like to note that for civilians I consider any weapon as an adjunct to empty handed skills and for the most part unnecessary. Remember that knowledge weighs nothing, lower levels of force will more often be what are needed, and (unless you're an amputee) you can't forget your body parts at home.

Know The Law

If it is not legal to carry a weapon in your country, stop right now. Carrying something which is purpose made as a weapon in a region where it is prohibited can lead to jail time, even if you use it to save your own life. In some regions you may be able to legally carry an item which could be pressed into service as a weapon like a folding pocket knife, heavy duty pen, keychain, etc. More on these improvised weapons later.
If it is legal to carry purpose made weapons your search becomes much easier. Again be aware of what you can legally carry as some states in the U.S. for example will allow you to carry a firearm but not a knife. Our Legal Knowledge area has a section with prohibited (non-firearm) weapons in Canada.
For both groups of people be aware of how you carry. A knife legally carried but slipped under the shirt could be considered a concealed weapon and land you in hot water.

Get Trained

This section is very simple. If you don't have training with a particular item be it a gun, knife, taser, pepper spray, or any other tool... DO NOT CARRY IT! You are only creating more danger to yourself.
You need to be able to draw, retain, and use anything you carry effectively. That means consistent and regular training. Training once or twice a year is insufficient for something you carry everyday for intended use in a high pressure, high stakes, andrenaline fuelled situation.
If you don't have training with your force multiplier of choice you're also going to risk not deploying it when appropriate. This might mean drawing too early, drawing too late, or freezing under pressure after you've already introduced the weapon. The rule of thumb here is to only carry things with which you have enough training to make effective decisions on deployment and where you're able to use them confidently and competently under pressure.

Use the Right Level of Force

This is an issue of some debate and it goes right along with training. Some people think you should carry the highest level of force available to you while others think that is overkill. The level of force necessary certainly depends on your region and should be proportionate to the threats you're likely to encounter.

Improvised weapons
If you can't carry a weapon you may be tempted to resort to carrying a tactical pen or any one of the self defence keychains on the market; DON'T. If you found it any prosecuting attorney can find it online. The fact that is is marketed for self defence makes it a purpose built weapon which means your plea of "but it's just a pen/flashlight/keychain" will fall on deaf ears. The words tactical, weapon, protection, strike, and self defence are just some of the words you should avoid on any product you actually want to use for those purposes. Unless you can carry something which would not be questioned, don't carry it at all. Even something like a big carabiner could draw attention by a prosecutor when they ask why you had nothing clipped on it and had it in your pocket.
This brings me to my next point...

The best weapon is not a weapon at all
If you carry something whose only use is a weapon you are likely to forget it, begrudge it's weight and bulge, and probably never draw it day to day. Something which has a function as a tool is something you are likely to always pack, have in the same place, draw more often, and which you have legitimate reason to carry.
I use my pocket knife, a Spyderco Paramilitary 2, at least once a day to open a package or even just remove loose threads from my uniform. Every time I pull it out that is practice drawing it. Because I use it so often it's always in the same place and I never forget to put it there. I would bet money that I can draw that tool faster under pressure than anyone who carries something like a dagger and almost never pulls it out because they carry it for self defence.

More detailed considerations:
armor - take a look at the v-42 commando knife. It was designed to be long enough to pierce a Russian greatcoat. Now take a look at a karambit. If you live in a cold and snowy place like I do you have to consider that much of the year people will be wearing heavy coats and/or heavy clothing. Impact tools, short/curved blades, and tasers are going to be a whole lot less effective in reaching their way through these layers. Thankfully for batons most people don't bundle up their thighs.
environment - if you're likely to be shot at a knife isn't going to help you much unless you're close and even then it's not a great option. If you're using pepper spray in a region where it tends to be windy you could be getting a face full instead of your attacker(s). And again for cold regiond you will want something you can operate while wearing gloves.
weight & bulk - if it's big and heavy you won't want to carry it and will probably eventually get rid of it anyway. No one is going to carry those huge Cold Steel folders; not for long anyway.
carry & draw - where can you carry it, how easy is it to draw and deploy, will it be comfortable to carry, and will it be concealed while carrying.
ergonomics - is it comfortable for you personally to hold and operate. Everyone's hands are built a little differently and people like different things.
handedness - yes lefties some things are just not made for you

Originally from the blog of Soaring Wing Chun Kung Fu Scarborough
Click to expand...

Your hands if you learned your style properly you will not need to carry a weapon a simple rolled up news paper is also as good as weapon to use

Hans Larrave · Mar 9, 2019

@Monkey_Magic Its Friday, I dread leaving my home for a pilgrimage tonight.

kungfupanda71 · Apr 28, 2019

Cane. Legal and effective with the proper training and practice. One has trouble from a legal perspective with cops if you carry anything useful like a spear, sword, or knife.

Pretty In Pink · Apr 28, 2019

kungfupanda71 said: ↑

Cane. Legal and effective with the proper training and practice. One has trouble from a legal perspective with cops if you carry anything useful like a spear, sword, or knife.
Click to expand...

How is a spear useful for anything

Travess · Apr 28, 2019

Pretty In Pink said: ↑

How is a spear useful for anything
Click to expand...

Travess

kungfupanda71 · Apr 28, 2019

Now that is a useful application of the spear!

Mushroom · Apr 29, 2019

kungfupanda71 said: ↑

Cane. Legal and effective with the proper training and practice. One has trouble from a legal perspective with cops if you carry anything useful like a spear, sword, or knife.
Click to expand...

Wrong. Anything can be classed as an offensive weapon if you're using it as an offensive weapon. If you're walking around with a cane, and you don't have a medical reason to carry that cane and you have the full intention of using it to whack someone with it...and you actually whack someone with it. Then it becomes an offence.
It is all about intent of use.

For example.
Scenario 1
Let's say I play baseball. I'm walking to a baseball game, in a baseball uniform. I have a baseball bat with me. It is quite clear I am using a baseball bat to go and play a game.
Scenario 2
I am wearing a cheap hoody, covering my face , standing at the corner of an alleyway, holding a baseball bat.

Which one is the dodgy look?

Bear in mind, a Baseball bat is not a designed offensive weapon.

Pretty In Pink · Apr 29, 2019

Mushroom said: ↑

Wrong. Anything can be classed as an offensive weapon if you're using it as an offensive weapon. If you're walking around with a cane, and you don't have a medical reason to carry that cane and you have the full intention of using it to whack someone with it...and you actually whack someone with it. Then it becomes an offence.
It is all about intent of use.

For example.
Scenario 1
Let's say I play baseball. I'm walking to a baseball game, in a baseball uniform. I have a baseball bat with me. It is quite clear I am using a baseball bat to go and play a game.
Scenario 2
I am wearing a cheap hoody, covering my face , standing at the corner of an alleyway, holding a baseball bat.

Which one is the dodgy look?

Bear in mind, a Baseball bat is not a designed offensive weapon.
Click to expand...

What if I'm just pimpin' and the cane is part of the outfit?

David Harrison · Apr 29, 2019

Mushroom said: ↑

Wrong. Anything can be classed as an offensive weapon if you're using it as an offensive weapon. If you're walking around with a cane, and you don't have a medical reason to carry that cane and you have the full intention of using it to whack someone with it...and you actually whack someone with it. Then it becomes an offence.
It is all about intent of use.

For example.
Scenario 1
Let's say I play baseball. I'm walking to a baseball game, in a baseball uniform. I have a baseball bat with me. It is quite clear I am using a baseball bat to go and play a game.
Scenario 2
I am wearing a cheap hoody, covering my face , standing at the corner of an alleyway, holding a baseball bat.

Which one is the dodgy look?

Bear in mind, a Baseball bat is not a designed offensive weapon.
Click to expand...

People find the intent thing hard to fathom for some reason.

If I'm on my way to a tomahawk throwing championship and I throw a tomahawk into a would-be car-jacker, that may well be fine if I acted in proportion to the threat.

If I carry a screwdriver in my pocket for no good reason and I chase off a would-be mugger with it, I could well be facing criminal charges for carrying an offensive weapon.

Smitfire · Apr 29, 2019

I carry wit and intellect that are so sharp they can be used as weapons.

David Harrison · Apr 29, 2019

Smitfire said: ↑

I carry wit and intellect that are so sharp they can be used as weapons.
Click to expand...

Did you have to register them at your local police station?

Smitfire · Apr 29, 2019

Yeah..did it at the same time I registered my fists as deadly weapons.

Mushroom · Apr 29, 2019

Pretty In Pink said: ↑

What if I'm just pimpin' and the cane is part of the outfit?
Click to expand...

That's a job for the Fashion Police.

David Harrison · Apr 29, 2019

Smitfire said: ↑

Yeah..did it at the same time I registered my fists as deadly weapons.
Click to expand...

A few months ago I had to tell someone that the registering hands as deadly weapons thing wasn't true.

Some years previously, his mate, who did Karate, got out of a fight by doing a fancy jump kick and telling the aggressor that he was registered as a deadly weapon with the cops. The aggressor skulked off.

I had to break it to him that it was all a blag to get out of a fight.

Mushroom · Apr 29, 2019

David Harrison said: ↑

A few months ago I had to tell someone that the registering hands as deadly weapons thing wasn't true.

Some years previously, his mate, who did Karate, got out of a fight by doing a fancy jump kick and telling the aggressor that he was registered as a deadly weapon with the cops. The aggressor skulked off.

I had to break it to him that it was all a blag to get out of a fight.
Click to expand...

I know Kung fu, boxing, karate, tae kwon do and other dangerous sounding words.

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