Which is better for effective self defense?

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Kyrotep, Nov 19, 2010.

  1. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    IF we are talking about purely physical skills that come into play when violence an unavoidable certainty... and indeed imminent

    Not freeze up due to a certain level of familiarity/comfort with adrenal stress and physical contact built from hours and hours of hard sparing and agressive bodily contact?

    Smash them in the face with ko power and great technique developed through hours and hours of pad work, bag work and sparring?

    Break grips and or out grapple/strike them in clinch range from hours and hours spent wrestling/striking at that range against a skilled and uncooperative opponant?

    The list goes on but you get the idea.


    As ratty said it's base physical skills that will come into play during the actual physical portion of a self defence situation.

    Senario training has it's place but you can't cover everything because situations are too varied and nuanced to replicate, you'd be doing them forever. I think it's best to develop a solid foundation of fighting skill which develops both physical and mental attributes then compliment this with tactical/mental sikllsets such as conflict avoidence, situational awareness, verbal de-esculation, lifestyle choices etc, ect...
     
  2. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Right, but what part of the "someone attempts to grab you" scenario doesn't take place in MMA?

    Honestly, I've seen plenty of places that specifically trained for lapel grabs, and the counters were miserable. Where any given MMA match might show you just how effective a good jab/cross, elbow, or sprawl would be in thwarting the dreaded grab. If I wanted my daughter to learn how to avoid being put on the floor and pinned down, I'd send her to people who practice those skills vigorously on a regular basis. I agree with you about the pre-fight stuff. But on a technical level, there's a lot to recommend competitive martial arts (boxing included). A good stiff jab in the snotbox goes a long way.
     
  3. Preacher Wilson

    Preacher Wilson Valued Member

    i totally agree. i think there is alot to learn from both sides.

    ok, wheww, not a complete disaster for stemming from my first post...i promise i'm keeping an open mind and i look forward to learning alot from everyone.

    thanks,
    Preacher
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2011
  4. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    What is this common sense these humans speak of? :p
     
  5. Timmy Boy

    Timmy Boy Man on a Mission

    I don't know a lot about your training, but it seems to me that if you train for "what if" scenarios without training your basic fighting skills in a realistic manner (as MMA fighters do) then you're really putting the cart before the horse, surely?
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2011
  6. Preacher Wilson

    Preacher Wilson Valued Member

    .
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2011
  7. Timmy Boy

    Timmy Boy Man on a Mission

    I don't think I'd say it would be "as bad". The basics have got to be more important - that's why they're called basics.

    If you do MMA-style sparring in your training then great, I just didn't think you did because of the way you described MMA techniques as being reliant on "brute force" and placed so much stock in theory.
     
  8. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    I'm just guessing here but I feel MMA-style sparring and MMA sparring are going to be Worlds apart
     
  9. Mr.Black

    Mr.Black Valued Member

    Riding around with tank is best for self defense. If it has some nukes mounted, that better.

    Now really, best tool for self defense is your brain. Without using it proper no martial art is good for self defense, and using it proper, any art will be good.

    If you really look just for self defense i recomend Krav Maga or Combat Hapkido. But, with time, effort, and proper training any martial art will help you in bad situations.

    My 2 cents
     
  10. Timmy Boy

    Timmy Boy Man on a Mission

    I think it's also worth noting that judo, which Preacher Wilson cites as an example of an art that teaches you to deal with lapel grabs, doesn't teach you a specific magic counter to deal with it - you simply learn how to get better at dealing with it through sparring again and again and again.
     
  11. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    dicipline and respect, you do know what those traditional martial arts were developed for right, killing the enermy or surviving hostile encounters, and a good many of the good tcma teachers who came to the US and europe did so to teach for associations or work for them........and for the record both thai boxing and BJJ are as traditional as you can get :)

    and i actually question whether you do train alongside MMA guys, most i know have done door work or security to make ends meet, and most are a damn sight tougher and more ready for a confrontation than the majority of TCMA guys i know

    And lol kempo and hapkido...those are your choices for self defence......:eek:
     
  12. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    so if you train for well placed shots against a willing opponent, how do you manage to hit those spots when you are in the mire so to speak, since you fight as you train so to speak

    the kick to the nuts defence.......love it
     
  13. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    the fact you call it cagefighting says alot about your expereince and knowledge of the sport
     
  14. Preacher Wilson

    Preacher Wilson Valued Member

    /
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2011
  15. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    uhh... no it doesn't.

    Different terms for different people from different regions. I don't expect a conversation in the midlands to the same way a conversation in Alabama or Newfoundland or S. California would. All would be speaking English to some extent but unless entirely familiar with the dialect and social backdrop you can't really make such a large assumption about someone and have it really make much sense.

    :hat:
     
  16. LCC

    LCC Valued Member

    Yups. Here in Oz one of the biggest MMA promos is the CFC (Cage Fighting Championships).
     
  17. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    In fairness cage fighting is the term I use to people as MMA usually produces a blank stare
     
  18. Timmy Boy

    Timmy Boy Man on a Mission

    As an aside, I kind of dislike the term "cagefighting". Yeah yeah, I know that's what it is - blokes fighting in cages. But I think in the public eye it conjures up images of some brutal gladitorial/Thunderdome-type-contest that diminishes the level of skill and exaggerates the danger somewhat. I'm not saying it's a tickling contest but there are *some* rules and you get medical attention etc. And at least your head's not going to take the constant pounding that it would in boxing.
     
  19. Sargeslide

    Sargeslide Valued Member

    Any stiking art is good, Boxing is great, Muay Thai is excellent, I would also suggest Kempo.

    Sarge
     
  20. Dizzyj

    Dizzyj Valued Member

    Haven't had chance to read this whole thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating anyone.

    On the topic of the whole "sport vs tma" issue, I've had some recent experiences which reaffirmed the value of regular sparring even under reduced rulesets.

    The club I train with at university does a lot of no-gi grappling, especially on their weekly sparring/rolling sessions. Because those sessions are pretty unstructured, and because anyone who wants to turn up can without needing any number of required lessons etc, you often get people who don't have an understanding of what is allowed in the implied ruleset among the newbies. A number panic slightly when they can't work out what to do, and resort to going for the eyes, the throat, and all the other nasty areas that we are often told are the secret to beating the 'sports fighter'. On Saturday I was even mucking around with someone outside of the session going for pins, and they started punching me in the groin from beneath!

    What I found was that it actually makes little difference. A lot of the nasty tricks just hurt, and if you are concentrating then you can work through pain easily enough. For the rest I found superior positioning and ability to change position when under attack neutralized pretty much everything they were doing, even when they had top position.

    At the same time, when allowing such dirty shots between two people of closer experience level they were often pretty nasty, allowing you to force someone to change position, to take their mind off the pass you are making, and so on.


    This all plays into something I've been discovering for while, and which quite a few people seem to have already brought up. It's not that the nasty tricks and other horrible techniques are useless, but as the cliché goes; if you can't jab someone in the face what makes you think you can poke them in the eye?
     

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