Which is better for effective self defense?

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Kyrotep, Nov 19, 2010.

  1. Kyrotep

    Kyrotep Valued Member

    I am trying to decide what striking style to pair with Brazilian Jiu-jitsu. I am torn between Muay Thai kickboxing and Wing Chun Kung Fu.

    If you respond, please know some real information about these two styles and give reasons why one would be better then the other in self defense.

    Thank you!
  2. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    Just thai box already.

    There are exceptions but as a whole, wing chun is poorly trained, poorly taught, poorly understood, and poorly represented.
    Any legitimate thai boxing gym will make you a decent striker. Most legitimate wing chun gyms will make you suck really really bad.
  3. Bigmikey

    Bigmikey Internet Pacifist.

    I'd say if you really want to take this to its ultimate, then learn boxing for your hands and Hapkido for kicks and additional grappling, no one will be able to touch you.
  4. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    Muay Thai is much better than Wing Chun.

    The closest thing you can find to real fighting is MMA. Almost ALL MMA players train Muay Thai and very few train Wing Chun. At the top level none of them train wing chun as far as I know.

    There are a couple of wing chun schools that are getting into amateur MMA but the chances of you being near one is almost zero.

    So, go with the proven product.
  5. robertmap

    robertmap Valued Member

    Hi Kyrotep

    You say you want this for Self Defence - if that's the case don't bother with BJJ - it's NOT a self defence art.

    Go with Wing Chun for functionality or Muay Thai if you are fit and want to be fitter and get some serious conditioning.

    There are combat Ju-Jitsu styles out there, but they are few and far between - most are too sport orientated (and that's not only BJJ).

    Good luck with your search for arts that will suit your needs.
  6. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest


    Wing Chun over BJJ for functionality.

    The original UFC's were created to show the effectiveness of BJJ vs other styles. And for the 1st 5 to 10 UFCs the grapplers in general and BJJ in particular kicked butt.

    But wait, what about multiple opponents or weapons?!

    Well I look at it this way. If they couldn't beat one scrawny Brazilian in the cage how can they beat multiple or armed opponents in the street.

    Sorry, but as a former chunner who switched to BJJ my advice is to avoid the chun like the plague.
  7. robin101

    robin101 Working the always shift.

    i would do muay thai ( i will be soon :) ) it has elements of western boxing (which most people say is good for self defence) and uses the knees and elbows (good self defence techniques) and the training itself will put you in good shape (essential for self defence) and will get you used to taking full force shots to the head and body.

    All in all muay thai is a good non technical self defence option as well as a great sport to watch, just dont try the huge head kicks or flying knees outside the ring.
  8. robertmap

    robertmap Valued Member

    No, the UFC was created to showcase the Gracie's and their extraordinary talents.

    The format of the UFC is NOTHING like an average street encounter and WC has a huge advantage as it's about standing up, hitting hard and hitting fast and (if your instructor is any good) then getting the heck out of the area.

    I admit to having done more ju jitsu than WC (only did WC six months of one lesson a week as compared to over a year of JJ) and HAVEN'T done any BJJ (have rolled a little bit with a couple of beginner BJJ students) - but would still favour WC for self defence.

    Still like they say - there are no best arts - it's the martial artist not the martial art that is important so what works for one person is different to what works for another...
  9. Bigmikey

    Bigmikey Internet Pacifist.

    I think that for a nominal fee I can let you watch my neice. She's two. She can ball up her little fist and punch you square in the nads faster than you can blink an eye. The child can also kick, scratch and bite like a pro... you ever find yourself in a situation where those tools aren't cutting it and you let me know....

    Toddler-fu, ya HEARD??
  10. Kyrotep

    Kyrotep Valued Member

    Thank you all for the great replies so far. From what I see here, I am thinking Muay Thai. :cool: But any further comments are still welcome. Btw, this Muay Thai training I am thinking of is part of a MMA class that also trains in boxing, wrestling and BJJ. The other option was to take WC and BJJ in separate classes.
  11. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    To give a serious reply to the OP.

    Train a striking style where you actually hit and get hit with bad intentions. Getting hit is something you can learn to adapt to. Getting hit will also help you overcome any flinch reaction you might have when someone throws a punch.

    As for the BJJ, keep it up. You need grappling as a part of your style if you are going to be a complete fighter. A pure grappler has the advantage over a pure striker in that it is easier for the grappler to bring the striker into his world (the ground) than it is for the striker to avoid it. (Randy Couture vs James Toney for example).

    Even if striking is your primary focus you need to know how to stuff shots and avoid throws as well as being able to sweep or escape if someone manages to get on top of you.

    So, it doesn't have to be BJJ and Muay Thai but you need some sort of grappling and a striking style with a good sport reputation.
  12. Kyrotep

    Kyrotep Valued Member

    I've studied up on BJJ a bit. I'm pretty sure BJJ was developed as a combat art by the Gracie family, because quite a bit of the techniques in BJJ are meant to seriously injure and stop a fight. It's true that there are more sport type BJJ out there now, but having the ability to break a joint or choke out someone if a fight goes to the ground is valuable in my book.
  13. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    More important is to train and study to understand self defence situations rather than just training. Read up Geoff Thompson et al and understand how and why violence happens, not just how to physically do it.

    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
  14. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    My problem with Wing Chun is not the style its the training.

    Too many static drills, too much time doing forms, too much time doing chi sao and little or no sparring.

    I'm sure you'd agree with me that the first time you take and solid punch shouldn't be in a real fight. You need to know what that feels like so you don't panic and turn away or forget your training and begin to flail.

    I have taken much harder hits by mistake in my BJJ classes than I ever did in my wing chun training.

    Thats also why I recommend some grappling. You should know the feeling of panic and claustrophobia that sets in the first time someone puts you on your back and gets solid side control or a mount. You don't want to experience that the first time in a real fight either. Knowing how to survive and escape is much more important in grappling than having a bunch of submission holds.

    edit: IMO good wing chun trained realistically should look a lot like dirty boxing with a little Muay Thai clinch fighting thrown in. [ Check out Alan Orr's folks, they use wing chun in MMA] However you almost never see anything that.

    Hope that clarifies my dislike of Wing Chun

    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
  15. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Nope. It's a three sided triangle made up of student-instructor-art.
    ALL are important and all can make up for deficiencies in the other one or two.
    A good instructor can make a bad art work.
    A good student can make a bad art work.
    Ideally you want to be a good student, in a good art with a good instructor. :)
  16. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    I agree wholeheartedly with this. However finding this type of training is a lot harder. My basic rules are:

    Avoid places with large amounts of alcohol and testosterone.

    Don't go to places where bad things happen.

    Travel in a group.

    Don't act like a jerk and keep your mouth shut when other people are running theirs.

    If your senses are telling you somethings wrong trust them. Several hundred thousand years of evolution is probably right.
  17. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    One art will teach you how to deal with outside striking and inside striking using hands, feet, elbows and knees. It will teach you how to enter and escape the clinch and how to control and strike whilst clinched (probably the single most important range for self defense) It will include sparring all the time and is reasy to find good instruction in and other students who want to spar will be easy to find.........

    The other art will teach you how to chi sao, how to do forms, how to defend a centre line and will will not include any clinch work or hard sparring and finding a good instructor is like finding a needle in a haystack.......and they trying to find other students willing to go at it will be like fnding well, a needle in two haystacks....

    which would you chose?
  18. eltgire

    eltgire New Member

    I'd suggest looking into adding some Judo training. It's a great bridge between the pure standup and the pure ground game. i.e. going from striking to taking advantage of a throw and then finishing your opponent on the ground.
  19. robertmap

    robertmap Valued Member

    Yes it does and I agree with pretty much everything you say :)
  20. robertmap

    robertmap Valued Member

    Got to agree with that :) Can I add a forth corner to the triangle? - Lots of good partners to practice with of different sizes, shapes and martial (or non-martial) backgrounds.

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