Which art is best of 'da streets'

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Dead_pool, Jul 5, 2015.

  1. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    I don't but if people are going to claim things to back up points they make it needs to be real or where will it end?
    Anyone could say anything simply to be right as oppose to it actually being useful.
    What's the point.
     
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    They most certainly did unless they joined so long ago they had a whistle and a wooden truncheon as standard issue
     
  3. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    @badgerladder it's the internet. anyone can say anything. make a mental note, rightly call the person out if you have a problem, move on. instead, you creeping around trying to get real information out of someone not wanting to give it is...creepy.
     
  4. rob0107

    rob0107 Valued Member

    No, but it is logical that you should train in the gear that you are likely to be wearing in the environment you are training for. You're likely to kick differently when wearing shoes; grapple differently in shorts and a t-shirt than when wearing a gi etc. Even if it's only the odd session a month just so that you can recognise and adapt to the differences in a safer environment, rather than becoming aware of them when someone's trying to rearrange your facial features...
     
  5. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    Nope, these guys didn't. They were complimenting anything they did by training privately giving no indication that scenarios or SIM type trAining was essential.
     
  6. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    Well yea of course I do... that's the whole point and why people get away with it. I'm doing about as much creeping as any on here who have mauled into newbies and wanted to know if they actually train.
    Oh Yea ,your right. Move on. I couldn't care less.
     
  7. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    Yea, I agree. It's not like I have never trained in clothes.
    I would say it was better though to have a mental attitude and sound fundamentals able to be used during any emergency in any situation than take an approach where you need to have trained the specific scenario or in every item of clothing because that's too infinite and can vary too much.
     
  8. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I doubt you ever discussed

    Sims and arrest scenarios are part of EVERY PTC in the UK, let alone abroad. They can be called "scenarios", "roleplays" or "SDE's" but everyone does them
     
  9. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    Kind of not discussed in terms of arresting etc, but in terms of basics of looking after themselves one preferred muay Thai and grappling and was adamant this was his bread and butter. He was the most serious and in the most situations. The other 2 just town police and made no grand statements about anything. The point is when ever anything came up they made no grand claims or veered anyone towards doing scenario or SIM type days as some essential training.
    Others might ,yea. Others don't.
     
  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Even more relevant for women who like high heels and tight dresses.
     
  11. rob0107

    rob0107 Valued Member

    I think you have a slightly skewed idea of what the SIM days actually train. You're not training specific scenarios so that if you happen to spill a man's pint in a pub you'll know exactly what to do, you're instead training the soft skills such as de-escalation, awareness etc., which in self defence are the high-percentage techniques. Even if they seem easy and natural to you, to a lot of people (myself included) who have had a fairly sheltered upbringing, confrontation is a terrifying thing. Many people have no idea how to deal with the adrenaline dump, how to react and verbally deal with someone who's being incredibly agressive etc., and these SIM days (whilst no means perfect) offer the closest, but safest exposure to these kinds of things, and allow you to try to train and experience them, then get a de-briefing afterwards on how things went.
     
  12. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    The potential problem, as I see it, is that the weakest link is the acting ability of the antagonists.

    Unless they are actually skilled at intimidating people, which only comes from practice - from being an aggressive an unpleasant person, or from adopting an aggressive and unpleasant persona in your line of work, or from being a professional actor (which could be said to be the same as the former) - then it has the potential to give a student reinforcement of false positive outcomes.

    In professional scenario training, such as the police, you would expect there to be enough people to pick from who can turn that kind of behaviour on. When the actors are all joe bloggs folk who might not have even experienced truly scary people? I'm not so sure...

    There might be some very good martial artists in the group, but what measures are taken to make sure there are good actors? Is that trained?
     
  13. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    I have to say , jwt has some guys who are very good at being bad guys ,I couldn't do it for toffee , but his guys were really good.
     
  14. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    That's great, and I was in no way singling out jwt's stuff.

    But just because someone says they do scenario training, doesn't automatically mean they're getting good training.
     
  15. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I know JWT constructs them as I do and that it is akin to having a script with a lot of room to improvise

    Not everyone you spar is GSP and not every scenario actor is Johnny Depp, but there is still a ton to learn
     
  16. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Sure, I appreciate that.

    I still wonder if things couldn't be improved by having specific training for antagonists though. Maybe some groups do? I don't know - hence the question :)
     
  17. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Your site says you have a cross between "science and scenario", so what type of scenarios do you do, David and how do you do about making sure your coaches are improved by having specific training?
     
  18. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    In Jwt's sessions if most people haven't been before you spend the first hour or two practising threatening, shoving, escalation etc and then learning how to do the scenarios.
     
  19. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Also, as with any training, the more you do the better you get. I've been to 4 sim days now and I think I'm a reasonable bad guy by now.
     
  20. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    As opposed to being an unreasonable bad guy? ;)
     

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