Where did everyone go?

Discussion in 'Silat' started by Gajah Silat, Oct 8, 2007.

  1. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    Selamat Semua,

    So....where did they all go? and why?

    There used to be many posters in the silat section, Bobbe, Orang Jawa, Steve Perry, Silkroad, Kembang Alas, Mushtaq Ali, Wali.......and many more.

    All individuals often with strong opinions, but all with a great deal of experience.

    I used to enjoy the heated discussions, and now and then something would make me look at things from a different angle and give a little insight.

    Did everyone get driven away by the politics?

    What a shame :cry:
  2. Ular Sawa

    Ular Sawa Valued Member

    Orang Jawa got married if I recall. There's a distraction if there ever was one. I could only speculate on the rest. I think Bobbe has been posting elsewhere.
  3. SundaWarrior

    SundaWarrior Valued Member

    Salam Gajah,

    A bunch have gone to SahabatSilat.

  4. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    A number of them just got tired of it. Two of the people you mention said "I left when it turned into Muslim Arts Planet." And one of the guys is a Muslim :( Others said that they were tired of fighting the same battles over and over again. One or two found more important ways to spend their time.
  5. Ular Sawa

    Ular Sawa Valued Member

    Ironically, that sort of thing diminished after a certain someone got banned and went off to spread his inflammatory crap over at SahabatSilat.
  6. SundaWarrior

    SundaWarrior Valued Member

    Let's not confuse people Ular. There is a lot more to SahabatSilat than inflammatory crap. It is a site in search of truth and the spreading of traditional Pencak Silat.

  7. Ular Sawa

    Ular Sawa Valued Member

    No dispute over intention of the the site. However, the individual with the inflammatory agenda found a home on their forum. Whether or not that sort of thing aids in the search for truth is questionable. It is what it is.
  8. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    Amen, Ular Sawa. Bobbe posted some very interesting stuff there before the backbiting, bile and bigotry drove him off. I fear that most of what he wrote has since been deleted.
  9. Pekir

    Pekir Valued Member

    Hi there,

    I still visit the forum on a regular basis and read the threads. I quess my reason for not answering to posts lately is that a majority of the post were to much of a US issue for me to take part in. I read them with interest but saw no added value in meddling in discussions to specific (on for example Bukti or certain persons) and on which I have no knowledge about.

    I quess it has to do with the subjects of the thread as far as I'm concerned not the quality of the posts. The presence of certain individuals will never keep me from forums, I know of no forum that doesn't have individuals around that are no to my liking...

    I do see some difference among the perspectives and major opinions on the forums depending on where they originate (US, The Netherlands or Indonesia). On the US forums I see a fair bit of strive for brotherhood, on the Dutch forum this is relatively absent as far as I can judge. In the end it all comes back to the same bitching though. LOL

  10. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    Your fear is misplaced. Here is the link.

    For the record, I am not a Muslim. Within my own immediate family we have Catholic, Gnostic Christian, Muslim, Kejawen, Buddhist & philosophical Taoist and agnostic. So you see that it is possible that Indonesians from many different faiths to live together without religious and spiritual conflict.

    However, the growth of silat during the last century was democratised largely because of the influence of the pesantren, hence the often ubiquituous influence of Islam. Before that, it was largely the domain of the warrior classes and nobility and that is where you may still find family arts.

    As Indonesians, Indonesian Pencak Silat (traditional pencak silat in particular) is part of our heritage and as such is our National treasure, and we have a vested interest in its promotion and health. That is the role of FP2STI.

    SahabatSilat.com is there to promote discussion and debate to research Traditonal Indoesian Pencak Silat and to be a repository of FP2STI related information. Of course things can get heated even if that is not the original intention. Again, sometimes the language becomes heated due to perceived arrogance. The source could be different cultural perspective, but could also be the walls that have been erected from all sides over the years.

    One problem that exists is in the area of communication between peoples with different (and often alien) cultural perspectives. We are trying to address that, however I understand why it might be easier to give up and walk away.

    The term "Silat" of and by itself has linguistic connotations and means "martial art". If you were a modern Chinese you might call it Wu Shu or Kung Fu ... an English speaking person would say "Martial Arts".
    It could also be used as a blanket term to refer to SEA martial arts in general including Muay Thai, Escrima & Kali etc.

    "Salam" is a way to begin and end a conversation in Indonesia. It does not mean that the user prescribes to any particular religion.

    Salam dan semoga bermanfaat (I hope that this is useful),
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2007
  11. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    Hmmm, I've heard this one before, and for what it's worth I don't see why this would affect people to that extent. If one practices an MA that is practised predominantly (but not exclusively) by Muslims one would surely expect to come across a little Islam :confused:

    I think this may have more to do with Islamophobia (including Iraqnophobia) in the USA. Americans seems to be much more uncomfortable with anything Islamic than most Europeans.

    Also as far as I remember, there was certainly as much, if not more infighting between American 'factions' than any perceived East/West divide.

    Absolutely Pekir. You see, even with the disputes and politics, adults should be able to repectfully disagree on matters. Perhaps we should learn not to be so easily offended :p

    As for Bobbe, and this is possibly a strange conclusion from only 'knowing' him through reading posts, but I always felt that I liked him!
  12. Ular Sawa

    Ular Sawa Valued Member

    I don't think that's necessarily the case. Islam is one of the fastest growing religions in the states. Certainly, there is a fearful reaction to that which is quite ignorant and unfortunate. I find that is quite accepted around where I live.

    I definitely agree with your comment about Bobbe. I enjoyed his posts and I miss his wit and wisdom.

    Krisno, I would be interested in hearing about the Taoist elements you mentioned, perhaps when you have time. Salam.
  13. tellner

    tellner Valued Member

    What the people who said it meant definitely wasn't anti-Muslim bigotry. Consider that a couple of them are Muslims. What was meant was that there was a serious case of religious fanaticism and reactive racism on the part of some of the more enthusiastic posters. Their contention was that if you're not a Muslim and the right sort of Muslim you can't do Silat. Period. And when it went on to talking about the superiority of Muslims as human beings and the impossibility of non-Malays (in the larger sense) knowing something that Malays didn't several former posters decided that there was too much gravel to pan to find the nuggets.
  14. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    Aye, that type of perspective is certainly lacking, and should not be given any credibility be taking it seriously.

    Even on milis (mailing list) Silat Bogor you will find that eyebrows will raise should a person make a statement that appears to support intolerance, and the topic summarily dealt with.

    However Martin's point is also valid in that many people couch their POV as a Muslim and to other cultures it may seem a one sided view, although in most cases this was not the intention.

    Wassalaamualaikum, peace be with you ... and (for the purist) I apologise for my villager rendering of that spelling!


    Ular Sawa, I am the Buddhist/philosophical Taoist, which I tend to conflate with Kejawen, which essentially means "Javaneseness".
    While my family do have traces of Chinese ancestry, my interest sprang from my childhood reading and was strengthened by the influence of one of my movement teachers Prof. Li Pei Dong.

    I understand that the first Muslim kingdom in Java was ruled by a Muslim Chinese ... Raden Patah.
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2007
  15. silatliam

    silatliam Valued Member

    I think alot of people are no longer on the silat forums as they given up on ever having a conversation without it spilling into spite and hatred. For example people on this forum who were banned just move straight to sahabatsilat and were giving a home and support to contining ranting and sprouting lies. If you considered now in the last few weeks, when there no hatred or agenda there has been very little posted on that forum either. which is funny because at one time letters were posted nearly every hour, slamming our art form, teachers and club, mostly by two brothers. At one stage there seem to be nothing but anti this and anti that. Now that all there false accussation against my teacher been answer and proven false, which was mainly made by the guy who was banned from this forum and also warn to behave on another european silat forum, I don't see many apolgies coming forward, just a page of silence. :confused:

    I know of many friends now who have move away from silat some practising mma or eskrima, most watching tv or going to pub instead :cool: because silat has become a laughing stock for the martial arts world, due to these stupid internet wars. I know all sides have cause conflict, but I dont see anything changing, at the end of the day Silat is an minority artform, with few people who can get on with other silat people, thats why it never become main stream or exist on any forum in a positive light, for any period of time.
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2007
  16. Ular Sawa

    Ular Sawa Valued Member

    Well, it's nice to see you're still around Liam. Cheers mate.....
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2007
  17. Pekir

    Pekir Valued Member

    I agree that it is never one side who starts a conflict and yes, I'm pretty sure this will never change. It has been this way before the internet age and it will be in the internet age. I also agree that silat is a minority artform in the sense that it isn't one of the biggest and suitable for extreme or commercial exploitation. Therefore it will never become mainstream. Do I think it should become mainstream or one of the major martial arts, in the contrary. I'd be as happy as it stayed the way it is now, became a little less spread or grows somewhat. I just don't believe the 'size' of a martial art has anything to do with it's attractiveness.

    I once believed silat was particular in the way people had discussions on forums, I know now this is BS. If you ask me it's the same on every martial art forum. No matter if it is Karate, Kung Fu, MMA or Jui Jitsu.

    Are we on a fishing expedition :)

  18. Gajah Silat

    Gajah Silat Ayo berantam!

    Well said Pekir and I second that. Why must silat become the next big thing? Or perhaps a commercialised shadow of it's former self? A class of 50 all doing jurus in a row......aaargh. No thanks.

    I like it the way it is too. I also think because it is a much lesser known art (in the West) many of the people doing it have actively sought it out. So, we also may end up with more larger than life characters, a little unorthodox, a little non-conformist perhaps. I like that :) Small classes, interesting people :)
  19. Ular Sawa

    Ular Sawa Valued Member

    You think? LOL, I believe you have a point.
  20. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    The initial and underlying bone of contention still exists. No apology is necessary.

    The discussion and investigation is still active but has moved to a more private location as well as on to the Indonesian boards.
    The reason for this is because it is understood that any further attempt to discuss results in misunderstanding and the twisting of intention, so it leads to no where.

    That is all I'm prepared to talk on this subject for now.

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