When a Japanese sword meets flesh

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by Dave Humm, May 22, 2006.

  1. ScottUK

    ScottUK More human than human...


    That snippet of info was supplied by a taekwondo player. End of...
  2. AllieB

    AllieB Valued Member

    I should have clarified

    If doing forms or defenses etc. it is more appropriete to use a bokken or a dull sword, now cutting is different, however it is not nessasary to use a sharp sword unless you are cutting
  3. ScottUK

    ScottUK More human than human...

    Once again - nonsense.

    May I request you tell us your experience in sword arts?
  4. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    I disagree completely. There is only one thing that handles like sharp steel, and that's sharp steel. Because blunt swords have thicker edges, the balance is distorted, thus distorting techniques one performs with them. In sword training, one needs many tools at one's disposal, from wasters/bokken to blunt steel, aluminium, padded weapons/shinai, to a properly sharpened replica, and if one can manage it financially, a real antique original in good condition. There is no substitute for a good sharp, except an excellent sharp. ;)

    Best regards,

  5. AllieB

    AllieB Valued Member

    I guess friendly opinions are not welcome in this thread
    to answer your question not much and i am glad that you have more experience than. might i ask your experienced opinion or the right one??
  6. ScottUK

    ScottUK More human than human...

    A shinken is essential in the development of iai. That is my opinion. Feel free to argue/discuss.

    There is no hostility intended. Just state what you base your friendly opinion on.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2007
  7. saru1968

    saru1968 New Member

    Nothing wrong with friendly advice at all but i would take 'experienced' advice over it everytime.

    Sometimes its good to talk other times its good to listen.

    When it comes to swordwork(for lack of a better term) I'd advise listening in this case, espeically when Scott is one of the posters.
  8. AllieB

    AllieB Valued Member

    directed to scott
  9. AllieB

    AllieB Valued Member

    here i go quoting myself again i didnt mean to sound sarcastic or be rude to anyone and if i offended anyone i am sorry i took offense to the first comment
  10. ScottUK

    ScottUK More human than human...

    Directed at AllieB
  11. AllieB

    AllieB Valued Member

    I base my experience on watching my best friend nearly slice her thumb off while sheathing her sharpened sword, i personaly have been sliced(not at a dojo on the street in DC) And i base my opinion on being affected by this i am still interested in the sword and weapon arts and may someday use a sharp sword, kamas, daggers etc but until i am comfortable and confident with them i wont in my experience with anything if you are weary or not confident in your own abilitys is when one gets hurt.
  12. AllieB

    AllieB Valued Member

    excuse me i didnt get that befor i posted
  13. AllieB

    AllieB Valued Member

    thats what i thought but then i found a bokken with a wooden scabbard that i believe could be a good first step in learning how do draw a sword, do you think thats a bad idea to practive with a wooden scabbard as aposed to a real shinken?
  14. ScottUK

    ScottUK More human than human...

    Not at all. A bokuto is an ideal way to get into sword arts. Its just that once you reach a certain level, a blunt sword defeats the point of the art, and a live blade should be used. Many people overestimate their level and use a shinken prematurely (your friend perhaps?) and hurt themselves. This thread contains a few good examples of this.

    Good luck in your training,

  15. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    Wooden swords are an important training tool in many sword arts. I used a waster almost exclusively for over a year before using blunt and sharp steel. :)

  16. saru1968

    saru1968 New Member

    just so i'm correct


    'One of the most common historical training tools for the practice of swordsmanship throughout the Middle Ages and Renaissance was a wooden sword or waster. These were not light round sticks but heavy sword shaped training weapons. '

    never heard that before:)
  17. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Iai is drawing cutting and returning the SWORD. Drawing incorrectly cuts up the saiya returning incorrectly cuts up the hand. Using a real sword causes the beginner to concentrate on the basics rather than rushing through one kata after another. It also makes one train methodically and SLOWLY.Without the sense of danger one can lose the "respect for the sword". Iai training is not dangerous if you train properly studying the form and application slowly until you begin to master the form. Most accidents happen when the sword is returned to the scabbard quickly. This denies the principle of zanshin where you must be alert to other possibilitis of attack.
    Bottom line iai is the art of the SWORD not the bokken (or even the iaito).

    regards koyo
  18. Rhea

    Rhea Laser tag = NOT MA... Supporter

    except until i am happy I can do kata and cuts without hurting myself, I'm using a bokken thankyou. it may detract from the art, but at least I'm safe.
  19. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Hi rhea
    In fact my post was very sensitive. You do not want to hear what my high grade kandoka friends have to say. Iai is an art in it's own and they say you should not even contemplate it until you have performed many thousands of suburi and have a real knowledge of cutting and handling the sword.Even though I have a teaching licence in Iwama sword and stick I do not train in iai any more simply because it should be treated as an art in it's own not an extention of my art which is not kendo.

    regards koyo
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2007
  20. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    Most classical Japanese sword schools that have iai/batto in their syllabus have a constant principle in drawing and resheathing the weapon that relates with combative awareness: "Draw fast, resheathe slow"

    If you are a beginner and want to train in iai/batto, train with a bokuto and get yourself a plastic saya. They are readily available now than they were ten years ago, it makes life a lot easier.

    That being said, when I had my first lesson in Araki-ryu, I was expecting to be using a bokuto be doing suburi until the cows came home. I was given an iaito and told to do batto & suburi until the cows came home instead! :D

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