What's wrong with High Kicks?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by pgm316, Feb 27, 2003.

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  1. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    You knew somebody was going to ask it! :D

    So what's wrong with High Kicks?

    Are they more pleasing to the eye than effective? Too risky? High risk moves that can be effective if used correctly? Or, do you believe there good techniques?

  2. Cain

    Cain New Member

    Ya, I was goin' to create the same thread :D

    First my point is that they are not necessarry, but I get p**sed off when someone says they are totally useless.

    They are extremely effective against the average mugger/bad guy who does'nt expect them in the first place.

    They are also pretty hard, a front kick is hard to counter when aimed at a high level with good speed and power.

    Rant away :D

  3. iolair

    iolair Mostly Harmless

    I really like high kicks, but more because they are fun than useful. Though there are exceptions - a (singular) high kick can be very effective in a real fight if launched with no warning - if you've used no kicking techniques up to that point, they will not generally be prepared to defend against them. In particular the hook kick is fantastic because you can launch it from close range and it's nigh on impossible to see it coming unless you're expecting it. (I still remember being knocked down by one in sparring years ago which I only saw as it was hitting me! I instinctively did a judo breakfall as I hit the ground - which means you make more noise going down. Everyone in the club suddenly stopped sparring 'cos of the noise and turned round to see me sprawled on the floor)

    I'd like to imagine that there's a role for spinning/jumping kicks, I can only think of one - and that one clutching at straws too. If you had to fight a large group of people - which is practically suicide - your best hope is psychology rather than trying to beat them outright. If you take out one or two with really impressive looking moves, the rest might think twice. But it's a long shot ... personally in that situation I'd rather use my legs for something else: running away!
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2003
  4. johndoch

    johndoch upurs

    High Kicks

    Theres a time and place for high kicks.

    In a spar or MA tourney thats fine. You usually get into the rythym of the fight and you can slip in the odd high kick or two and even then hitting the target solidly is hard.

    On the street I wouldnt recommend it. Real fights are usually too fast and furious to get a high kick in. Thats why the MMA are so adament about the importance of working the clinch and going to ground.

    In saying that I used a front kick to mid section during a street fight it never won the fight but it didnt lose it either. If you insist that kicking can be used on the street keep it real and keep it safe. Use low kicks to attack your opponents root and unbalance him aiming for thighs, knees, groin.

    IMHO Dont overdo kicks I would say that an attacker has more respect for quick hands and elbows than kicks.
  5. Helm

    Helm New Member

    It depends on who your fighting really....
    imo when im sparring, against a 'rusher' i dont use high kicks, you're too likely to be unbalanced, and its damn hard to time. Although if you can get a wheelkick timed right against a rushing opponent, theres little more satisfying =)

    Headshots are really more of a confidence thing, if you think you can land it, throw it. But from a practical point of view high kicks take more energy to throw plus you gotta be up close to land one.
  6. johndoch

    johndoch upurs

    whats a wheel kick helm?
  7. pesilat

    pesilat Active Member

    Personally, I can do high kicks, but outside of sparring, I wouldn't likely consider it.

    Of course, I think that every tool has a time and place. If I found myself in the time and place to use a high kick, I would. But, generally, I won't.

    There are several reasons for this from my personal perspective.

    1) my feet are near the ground, my hands are up high

    2) none of the arts I train in make much use of high kicks so it's not deeply ingrained into me

    3) in the Southeast Asian arts, high kicking is frowned upon because of the prevalence of blades the cultures the arts evolved in. A high kick with a blade involved increases your risks of getting your leg cut which may mean you won't be able to walk/run, much less continue to fight.

    Generally, as the song goes, my "feet are there to move me around." I heard this analogy once: "You're like a tank. Your feet are your treads. Your hands are your gun. Your hips are your turret. Your treads are there to run over things and to put you into position to fire your guns." This is pretty much the way I look at it.

    To use another quote, "I'd no more kick you in the head than I'd punch you in the foot." Of course, both of these do have their time and place, but generally, I'm not going to do either.

    This is just my personal take on it. I've known people who were quick enough with their kicks that they could successfully pull it off. I'm not one of them, and I'm not willing to devote the time to developing that speed because, for me, the high kicks are a low percentage tool. So, I'm going to spend a lot of time developing something that I'll only use in about 1% of any situation. If I need it, it is there adequately enough for me to use if need be.

  8. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    I’d class high kicks as high-risk moves that can be effective if used correctly. To use them you have to be a good kicker obviously! But also a good fighter with enough understanding to be able to use a kick confidently in a fight with minimum risk of it going wrong.

    This doesn’t prove anything, but I’ve seen high kicks used often in Mua Thai and NHB style fights. The best was Bushido the Japanese NHB fights. A fighter called Kenjo Anjie[?] would frequently land his jumping back kick to great effect as well as other higher kicks. But he was a good fighter. So in theory an average fighter is likely to leave much bigger openings than a competition fighter.
  9. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    Don't like the idea of my feet being too far off the ground, real fights are unpredictable and I'd like to be able to recover my balance as quickly and easily as possible please.

    I keep hearing the advocation of high kicks in real fights by people who've never been in one. There are of course the few exceptional people who can do it, but its not a skill I'd teach for 'reality'.

  10. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    Fair point. I hope I didn't come across as advocating high kicks too much, because I did put a big BUT after ;)

    I've been in few altercations and have never used them. Its difficult being confident enough to RISK using high kicks in a “real fight” and I’m not confident enough of my own kicking to have moves like that in my game plan anyway. Plus, having some heavy shoes on is a big negative for high kicks!
  11. TkdWarrior

    TkdWarrior Valued Member

    good point from FF n Mr. Casto.
    wats is exactly wrong with High kicks?
    one word. Timing.
    mostly kickers whom i saw hav no sense of timing.
    then it comes to training point too...
    u CAN use most of high kicks(with some exceptions like hook or 360/540 etc etc) i mean roundhouse, drop/axe, side kicks, front kick all can be used in Real combat...
  12. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    If its the same wheel kick I practice, its usually done after a crescent/roundhouse kick as the momentum turns your back to your opponent you throw a back kick with the other leg, but instead of it going straight out, it arks round to strike with the back of the heel.

    Not an easy kick to use!
  13. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    If you really have to kick someone in the head, then put them on the ground first.

    This is one of my gripes with TKD (amongst others) in particular (sorry guys), from what I've seen, you guys mostly spar without allowing sweeps, take downs and leg catching. If you can still kick to the head with all that going on then you've a perfect right to, but I always looked at training high kicks as a way of giving me more control over low kicks.


    This post is in no way biased by the fact that I am short, with short legs and arthritic hips ;)
  14. Cain

    Cain New Member

    Wat if we bring conditioning in here -

    It's possible to condition your legs but not your face, at least for most (((HINT)))

  15. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Not your knee joints you can't mate!
  16. Cain

    Cain New Member

    I am don't think the balance thing comes when doing high kicks, I have seen quite some good kickers kick extremely fluidly without warning at face level, I am not one of them, but I can easily score with a good front kick to the chin or just above the upper lip and without losing my balance. It's easy to counter circular kicks like the spin kicks, hooks and roundhouses, but it's harder to counter or anticipate side kicks, front kicks [preffered] and back kicks [a bit riskier]

  17. Cain

    Cain New Member

    Ok, you are rite there :D

  18. slc

    slc Banned Banned

    It's pretty much all been covered already, but I may as well add my two penneth, especially considering I must have p*ssed you off the other day cain_charlie :D Sorry about that!

    I've been trying to think of a good reason to use a high kick on the street in self-defence and I can't...not without being stupid anyway (man throwing stuff at you from a ladder etc)...sorry I'm really not trying to make a joke of this.

    You say it yourself pgm316...RISK. Why take a risk on the street, you can die on the street, there are no rules. If you have to fight finish it as fast as possible and get the **** out of there! Even if you can execute a kick incredibly fast your hands are still closer to the target (we are talking about high kicks).
  19. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Kicking high CAN work - so can reaching down and punching them in the ankle.

    Neither of which I would consider a high percentage move :D
  20. Cain

    Cain New Member

    Pardon my memory, but I don't recall.....

    And no, I did'nt say high kicks are 'necessarry' simply that they can be quite useful if you are comfortable with them


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