I went to a religious school and I of all people know how annoying it is for people to try and force their beliefs down your throat, so I've always been very passive and quiet about my own opinions about religion and politics. In politics, as far as I see it there will always be people who are so dogmatic about their political ideologies and these people are the only people who care enough to get into any kind of power and my own personal beliefs are superfluous to anybody but myself. And to class my religious beliefs I'd say I'm agnostic. I can't prove there's no God, not more than anybody can prove there is one. Christians make me feel weird. Some of them believe so dearly in their god that they kinda creep me out. Everyday they set a new countdown to the end of the world. Their lives are completely based around their religion and just the level of starry eyed delusion they have in their god just unsettles me. Their ideas that the world is such a dark and evil place and the way that one day a perfect alpha male will deliver them from all the bad and love them unconditonally in a paradise where they'll never have to be scared or threatend ever again for eternity and all the bad is flushed down into Hell. I know people need the freedom to believe what they want to believe, but that just comes across as mentally unstable, and also most of them just become militant and start preaching about it and how people are burning for all eternity. As mentioned in another thread I've had to move house into a student area with a few house mates. Three out of four of them are cool and I think I have some new friends for life. There's a really cool German girl, a hot Russian chick which is great because I'm fluent in Russian. And there's a gay dude who's funny as f**k and camp as Christmas and he's always arguing with an Evangelical Christian English girl we live with who's always telling him that his choice to be homosexual is going to lead him straight to hell and my agnosticism is going to do the same. If I don't repent of my sins (which are everything fun) and I don't devote my eternal existence to the lord Jesus Christ then I have an eternity of hell fire awaiting me, and we should all get a move on because the rapture is imminent. She's constantly telling Ben (the gay guy) to get castrated so he'll be Asexual, as opposed to being a "Perverted sinner headed for Hell!!" She told us that she says these things because she loves us and she doesn't want us to burn, which is strange because she goes off on a diatribe on how she hates everything about us, but she loves us... I don't get it either. This, Along side a pirate DVD of Red State (I didn't buy it, my house mates just had it) has gotten me thinking about this subject for the first time in a long time. The idea of an afterlife makes me want to sue my parents. I had no choice in this deal, and now that I'm here, not only do I have to exist for all eternity, but the eternity will either be misery and psychological suffering in heaven or physical suffering in hell?.. Not a great amount of options and there is no way of getting out of it. It's either Hell 1 or Hell 2. Well, thanks God for all those options. Heaven would just be Hell 2. Based on God's personality Heaven would be eternally worshipping God. That's it. "Well, God didn't have to create us you know, if he created you then the least you can do is worship him" Well if this is all I can do if he did create us then I wouldn't want the offer, it makes it kinda pointless and undesirable. It's the same as me loaning you £10 and then you being so greatful for the loan that you decide to spend all of it on me. What was the point in the first place? If God is so in need of worship then why not just masturbate and love himself or buy a mirror and compliment himself for eternity? If that's all I can do then I'd rather not exist at all. I don't understand how anybody can view God as a force for good. Christians act as though the fact that he created us gives him the right to act as an evil, megalomaniacle, cry baby, tyrant who has no problem sentencing people to spend an eternity in agonising pain. Somebody who creates so much, but doesn't let you experience anything other than fearing and serving him. This is like child abuse but on a universal scale. It's also cowardice. He decides he's going to be a tyrannical overlord of a race of creatures who he plans to burn for eternity if they disobey or naturally see him for who he is, and he makes us as powerful as we are in comparison to him. I think that's a pretty accurate definition of cowardice. Another thing that would make it Hell 2, is the fact that I'll have to spend an eternity around Christians. Christians are a strange breed of people because they manage to somehow be some of the most incredibly annoying, yet unbelievebly boring people at the same time. They're some of the most genuinely happy-clappy, Ned Flanders style people who would do anything for you, yet some of the most inhumanly evil people who just make me want to vomit. Could you imagine having to spend an eternity with the Westbro Baptist Chruch? C'mon, think about it, an eternity with Tony Blair, Harold Camping, Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Becky Fischer, and all those other nut jobs. What perplexes me about Christians is that they claim that they have a moral code which makes them the best people in the world and everybody is an evil d**k compared to them which is fine if they want to believe that because that's just funny, but what's not funny is how they don't seem to care about people burning in Hell. Hang on, so you say you're morally superior to somebody like an Atheist, yet you don't seem to care that theres a dimension where eternal torture by fire is taking place, they have loved ones on this planet who love them and miss them and its all because of the God you worship and you don't care? Nobody deserves Hell. Think about the worst tyrant in History. Sure they could do to get their a**es burned for a while, but an eternity? C'mon, that's a bit harsh isn't it? I don't understand Christians when they try to persuade me with "eternal happiness." What's good about eternal happiness? Isn't what makes existing interesting having different emotions that are complete opposites and everything in between? Its good to feel happy, but without depression, sadness and anger then wouldn't happiness be meaningless. Especially after a million years. Also, isn't happiness better when you've earned it or when it happens spontaneously? You could say that you've earned your happiness by obeying God on earth, but that's only 70 or so years, what after a few Trillion years? Without having anything else but happiness then it gives existing no flaws and without flaws we have nothing to do or think about. We'd be bored out of our minds. I don't understand how people can call this planet "Hell" or can say they hate the world and call them all sinners who deserve hell. I think the people who say that are morons. Could you imagine the monotony and how little point our lives would have if everything was perfect or even good? One thing that may come up is, "You have way too much time on your hands"... I know, I'm broke with a creationist housemate who's impervious to reason. I have way too much time to think about this.
This question can only be answered by someone who has been to both places. Also, holy crap, that's a huge long post and I don't have the attention span to read it all.
I am atheist and i don't have such doubts in my life. We live, we die, worms eat us. If we are lucky we will life some new life or watch earth from skyes...but probably not
Well I was raised in an evangelical atmosphere, holy rollers as some say but have my doubts today. I've seen too much horror and pain to think that a great being would allow it to happen if he really loved us. Then theres the catholics who sort of choose which religious rules to follow and not follow depending on the current circumstances, and then we have to believe in a bible that was written by a fallible group of humans. I have a fairly hardcore religious brother who constantly preaches to me about how awful I am though I've helped people my entire life with my career. After listening to him blah blah blah, I ask him: If the bible says not to judge others, why do you judge me? Usually shuts him up. I don't say I don't have opinions, I sure do. But I don't preach that others should believe what I believe. I'm not even saying my opinions are right, they're just mine. Ask me and I'll give them to you even if you won't like them. My ultra liberal boss learned a long time ago to pick and choose what she wants to 'chat' about during slow times or breaks since I almost always believe 180 degrees opposite of what she believes in. I guess I'm just saying believe what you want, just don't force your beliefs on others.
A wrathful god who expects us to love him to go to heaven is the main reason im not down with the idea of god with a personality/as a being. Why is it that i can be a good person, help others, do charity, protect those who need it, love those around me yet because i don't worship god enough and love/fear him and follow "his" rules - i go to hell? I was raised in Sikhism which has a connections with pantheism so maybe thats why i find it hard to understand a Christian POV. I was raised with the understanding that by helping others and loving others, i'm doing what i'm supposed to. i dont believe in heaven or hell. and i dont think it matters. the only heaven and hell is what you make of life. I wont spend my life doing what makes god happy when it clearly makes so many other people unhappy and makes their lives worse e.g. killing in the name of god because the church allows me to, (like the inquisition ) in my understanding in any case is that by helping others and by making someone else happy you're making god happy as they are a part of god. Homosexuality and their love doesn't hurt anyone else and makes them happy so why would god get ****ed of? (I refuse to comment on the bible) My grandparents said something profound to me once "Respect and look after others and you have already said enough prayers"
To the OP: I think this idea is a reflection of the situation you found yourself in, really. There's only one thing to do: fight back. Annoy her by foisting made-up pseudo-religious crud on her, pretending to be a pagan, worship the devil in public if necessary, but do something to turn back the tide, because judging by the tone of your post, it sounds like so far she's winning. Also, you need to form a bond of solidarity with your fellow hostages to unreason. Make up a good nickname for your oppressor. Talk about her views openly behind her back, etc. etc. Good luck.
Bloody hell if we're not allowed to judge then why is god? Why is there a judgement day? He probably didn't want us eating from the tree of knowledge so we wouldn't question him. One thing that gets me is when people say that Jesus is the one true saviour - well why is it that people in remote areas haven't heard of him or the bible and generations have died without this knowledge? Omnipotent god has damned them all on a technicality because they never knew about jesus and sinned. What kind of god is that big of a douche?
Not a bit of it- he was scared that we might find the tree of life next. Srsly. It's in genesis somewhere. I'm fairly sure there's some official dogma about this stuff. Like, either they go to purgatory or they dwell on the uppermost part of hell or something. Try doing what I couldn't be bothered to do and look it up in Dante's divine comedy. From what I can gather and fathom about god's character, this kind of big, theatrical gesture could very well be the point behind the entire enterprise. An interesting point, but I think the standard answer is a vigorous clip around the ear and a stern 'did YOU make the universe, clever boy?' or some similar remark. Yeah, he does kind of emerge as a fairly unpleasant character. I mean, ultimately, the whole 'if there is god, why does he allow x to suffer' argument can be dealt with very easily by assuming god to be malevolent. Fortunately, I don't actually believe he exists. Otherwise, I'd find the whole idea fairly scary.
Surprisingly I do believe in a god. But most scientists would agree with my interpretation of god. Remember how the Greek Olympian Gods over threw there predecessors, the Titans? And the Gods were afraid of us doing the same? This seems to be a running theme in religions... As for the tree of knowledge/tree of life stuff - could you elaborate?
I could do...ah, here we are, genesis chapter 3 section 22 (this, if I remember rightly would be genesis 3:22).I can't eleborate much, as there' doesn't seem to be much more than a few sentences.
One thing that puzzles me is that some Christians explain evil in the world by claiming you cannot have good without evil. They then go on to tell you that there will be no evil in heaven. I have a friend who is a Jehovah's Witness. She tells me that all evil is the result of free will. She also asserts that there is no evil in the afterlife. She's having a hard time in her private life at the moment, so I've refrained from asking her if she thinks there is any free will in the afterlife. I suspect if I did the answer would be that God would just magically make it happen that there could be goodness without evil but with free will. My next question to her would obviously be to ask why he doesn't do this on Earth right now, but these kinds of debates make me dizzy.
Wow this sheds a whole new light on the political aspects of creation: I say let's eat some forever fruit. Which way to the garden of eden?
Thank you. ha I'm glad you think it's intelligent. I'm not really sure what I think about religion and spirituality I thought somebody would just accuse me of rambling lol. I'm a dude by the way.
Yeah, sorry about that man. When I was referring to my friend being funny as F, I was going to say "funny as hell" but due to the topic then that seemed inappropriate, I couldn't think of any other words for it.
It's good he's thinking critically and not letting it get him down. I agree with Knight Errant: **** her off. Say Jesus the spanish way. Constantly talk in biblical metaphor. Become a devout pastafarian and spew religious stuff at her and wear a strainer on your head indoors. Perform odd religious ceremonies in your boxers in the kitchen and tell her off for coming in and disturbing them. When she asks why tell her its because theres more pasta in here so you feel closer to your god, like she does in church. Eventually she'll stop when you tell her not to judge your religion because in pastafarianism they say non-believers of the flying spaghetti monster are sinners by default.
