What's the use?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HctbGmUug3M"]FOF-CG Tourney 64 - Thats not amtgard!! - YouTube[/ame]

Believe it or not, most actual LARPers can move live to a decent level. Some groups (generally based on ruleset) consistently produce competent stick fighters.

This is more than many MA styles can say.

 

The biggest shame to MAP is dismissing YKW. Guys like Icefield, who is very knowledgable of both wrestling and CMA culture, know why - YKW is like the Hatsumi (or at least Menkyo Kaiden to use a ninjutsu term) of his style.

(Also send me the stuff on running takedowns in PM. Was toying with them when working for rugby club)

 

I think that is actually part of the problem here. Personally (and I do not feel I am in the minority here) I see MAP as a great place to get information on a broad range of martial arts. Where I don't see MAP as adding a great deal of value is in situations where someone wants an indepth art-specific discussion of the intricacies and technicalities of technique. For example, if I wanted a broad overview of the similarities and differences between how kyokushin guys and Thai boxers kick then MAP would be a great place to get that info. If I wanted to hear a broad range of perspectives on what art would best suit someone looking to rapidly develop usable techniques, or try to discover if there are any internal style training methods that may be worth experimenting with in a competitive external style, then MAP is a remarkably good source. Even if I wanted an overview of the different wing chun lineages, or opinions on whether wing chun was really created by the buddhist nun Ng Mui, MAP is pretty good at that sort of stuff as well.

If I want to learn how to effectively set up a takedown with strikes in an MMA environment I am not going to look on MAP for the answer, because that is not where MAP excels. I would firstly ask my coach and senior fighters at my school, and if I wanted to also do my own research I would then check out an MMA-specific forum. If I did ask the question on MAP I would end up with all sorts of terrible advice from people that really don't understand the environment. I might also get some good advice, but the ratio of signal to noise would make it not an effective use of my time.

I often get the feeling on the ninjutsu subforum that people would prefer that this area operated more like an art-specific forum where technicalities can be discussed uninterrupted, controversies can be ignored, and where most of the practitioners are from the same background. Many people here seem to dislike the fact that a discussion about a ninjutsu throw will end up with wrestlers and judoka coming in and saying "how on earth could that possibly work, you really need to do this instead", but that is really the nature of MAP. The inclusive nature of MAP makes it very good at generating comparative discussions and overviews, and really creates an area where martial artists can bounce ideas around, find information, and disagree with each other a whole lot. Unfortunately MAP will probably never be the best place for detailed and technical discussions of a technique between people from similar backgrounds, but there are plenty of other places that fill this need (and none that are as good as MAP at bringing together people from disparate viewpoints in my opinion).

 

Kave -- I think your post is likely the most eloquent I've read yet, as a description to the situation.

 

Skillful misdirection, maybe..

The problem is that unless we are all AT WAR WITH EACH OTHER, deception in these forums should be as unacceptable a tactic as ad hominem and trolling.

For example, if I claim: Masaaki Hatsumi teaches an amalgamation of arts and stories from Takamatsu, including lots of tall tales and fibs that can't be substantiated, as a modern ninjutsu system that he invented (and some might say changes daily)...is this "trolling the Booj". Not really, but online it will incur the same result...

...you can almost hear the scraping of tanto the moment they read tall tales....

My advice to all the ninjas is to relax and accept that the history is so much hot air and purple hair.

The arts, on the other hand, they should always speak for themselves, as Chadderz pointed out. It's nice to actually have someone here who shows they know what they're talking about when it comes to martial arts.

Who else is willing to step into the light? Maybe that's the next road for some ninja here...maybe you've reached a plateau in your discussion because you refuse to let others know more about you than you are comfortable with.

 

So you repeatedly attacking and slandering an entire martial arts organisation, everyone in it and its teacher is perfectly reasonable, and not a "warlike" thing to do at all eh? Maybe that has something to do with the kind of reception you (and others) have been enjoying?

No, of course - it's our fault for misunderstanding your innocent opinions as hostile and insulting attacks. Especially as you've made sure to express them so frequently and zealously all over these boards.

 

That's because in essence it is.

While many might visualise larping as people dressed up in civil war or roman outfits recreating battles,something that should not be ignored is that any professional training group whether military, LEO or civilian conflict management uses larping to test its effectiveness.

 

So what did you think of the scenarios I suggested?

 

I thought they were interesting.

So much depends upon what the practitioner sees his art as being for.

If I was looking to set up a situation to test the unarmed aspects of the art for the historical purpose for which I believe they were designed then I would perhaps be looking at scenarios that got the practitioner to kidnap, rob or murder an unsuspecting victim, or perhaps defend themselves in an assassination attempt where they have perhaps lost their weapons. I'm happy to be corrected but I don't think the unarmed art was developed so much for personal self defence as for pre planned assault/ambush although there will be overlapping elements.

That said a fair proportion of those skills should be trainable and transferable to pressure test in modern self defence scenarios.

 

I don't think I'm quite getting your point.

It sounds like you're saying that people shouldn't discuss technique, beyond broad "this is roughly what I do" strokes, on MAP. Just because you don't feel that is what MAP is for?

So anyone who gets into any technical intricacies is using MAP incorrectly?

Also, it's one thing to ask "why do you do it like that?" or say "this is how I do it", but what can, and does, happen is basically inferring that someone is a liar by saying: "I don't care if you say you've used this live, I know it's impossible because I know I am better and more knowledgeable than you".

 

Where have I ever repeatedly attacked and slandered your organization? I have not. Nor do I attack the "ninjutsu" videos on MAP.

Questioning the history and origin stories is not attacking the practitioners...if anything, the BJKers here are hitting me with ad hominem because they don't like the fact I ask too many questions that they can't answer (without pointing me right back at the BJK). I have done my best to a) appease the mods, b) be civil towards every BJKer on this board (including PR, who does not deserve it), and c) resolve my own uncertainties.

Now if anyone bothered to actually read my posts, they know I am trying to play a fine line here, not to troll the BJK, but to remind them that there are still many doubts as to what they preach as canonical ninjutsu.

It's hard to argue that I'm trolling anyone. I am Mike, from New Jersey. I seek only truth about ninjutsu, and for some reason, folks in the BJK think they have cornered this market because they know more about Japan than I do.

I don't think being in the BJK, even a high ranking member, makes you any sort of expert on Japan or ninjutsu, no matter how much of the BJK material you've studied.

Is that so hard to accept? That some people have objective standards for proof and want to see someone OUTSIDE the BJK support what gets passed within it as canon?

You're exaggerating, and leaving out the parts where I mention interacting with both current and former BJK folks and never having problems, ESPECIALLY on the technique side of things.

Questioning Hatsumi's unsubstantiated claims, and the realities behind them, is not attacking or slandering him. I personally think he's a fine gentleman.

I've also spent a tidy sum on his books, something I would not do if I had no respect for the man. Respect is one thing though, kowtowing is another.

No. "Warlike" is what you BJK's do when anyone questions your origin story, you circle the wagons, argue without logic, accuse people like me of having agendas against you, and hide behind the language and culture of Japan, which are not nearly as mysterious and prohibitive as you claim them to be.

Reception? I thoroughly enjoy MAP, I'm nice to people here and they are receptive to me. I am getting a lot of positive feedback for standing up to certain brow-beaters, so I know not everyone is on your side of the fence on this issue.

Where are the hostile and insulting attacks? OH wait, you are "chasing windmills", like Don Quixote.

 

Frodolicious....I understand your job, but continuing to receive ban threats from you (a former BJKer) especially after I did so much to conform to your request for civility reeks of bias towards this particular group.

I was warned about this before I joined MAP.

I hope you reconsider your position and can remain objective. Obviously you have the impetus to keep the peace here and I respect that, but branding/targeting me as a "ninjer hater" will hurt only hurt MAP's reputation further, particular the Ninjutsu forums.