What's the difference between Jujitsu and Brazilian Jujitsu?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Keitarosuwa, Oct 22, 2003.

  1. Humblebee

    Humblebee PaciFIST's evil twin


    If a lot of bjj'S crosstrain why dont they cross train in traditional jj they have striking techniques dont they?
  2. Ikken Hisatsu

    Ikken Hisatsu New Member

    too much overlap in most cases. better off just studying an art that is based solely on striking like muay thai instead of one that focuses on some of the same things that bjj does
  3. notquitedead

    notquitedead used to be Pankration90

    If you knew the history behind BJJ you wouldn't bother even saying that. The guy who taught the Gracies how to use JJ was a member of the Kodokan (which meant he did judo). He also had trained in trad JJ, wrestling, and some other things. Also, do you even know what judo is? It's a combination of techniques from many of the different trad JJ schools. The throws in judo are from trad JJ styles.

    Most standing locks are pretty useless IMO. The only one I would consider using is the kimura/chicken wing, but if you can do it on the ground you can do it standing (I've never trained it standing, but I've done it that way, the is a lot of cross-over in techniques from standing to ground). On the ground, it is easier to control someone (their range of movement is dramatically reduced). When they are standing, they are in total control of their own body and it is difficult to get them into a position they can't get out of if they are on their feet (I'm talking about a resisting partner, not some guy who stands there with his arm sticking out ;) ).

    When your shihan did the pressure points on you, were you doing everything within your power to prevent them or were you letting him demonstrate compliantly or in a situation that had rules? On the street, if someone started poking me trying to do pressure points I'd probably just keep hitting them. When your adrenaline is pumping on the street it's going to be hard to hit the right spots. When their adrenaline is pumping on the street they probably won't even feel it. Joint locks aren't just for causing pain (although they can be used that way), they can be used to break their arm or tear ligaments/tendons etc. whereas pressure points have one use: pain. If they can't feel the pain with a joint lock, damage the arm even more. If they can't feel the pain with a pressure point, you're wasting time.


    I'm not saying wrist locks and standing locks are useless, but I wouldn't want to take any chances trying to control one of their limbs with two of mine. That's just asking to be knocked out. The only time I would attempt any standing lock is if I was already in the clinch, and I would just use something like a kimura to transition to a takedown so I could get out of there.

    At first there needs to be some level of compliance while the technique is first learned. After a few minutes they need to start resisting. After a few more minutes, it should be tried full resistance. There is no excuse for people to spend an entire lesson practicing techniques with no resistance.

    But once you have a basic understanding of the technique, they need to resist. If you only learn how to do techniques on compliant opponents, what's going to happen on the street?

    True, but some arts have a strong tendancy to discourage cross-training (*cough* traditional *cough*)

  4. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    I do.
  5. Timmy Boy

    Timmy Boy Man on a Mission

    What's the point when you could, like Ikken says, learn a pure striking style as well as grappling, rather than learn another grappling style with a bit of striking in it?
  6. oldshadow

    oldshadow Valued Member

    Standing wristlocks will work with a non-compliant opponent. I have used them and seen them used. The thing is they must be used at the right time and right place. Certain wristlocks will work on the mat/ground with non-compliant opponents but the same as above concerning the right time. One thing on the mat is to attack the elbow and use it to drive the wrist to a lock. Get a good base “art” then cross train to strengthen it in every way possible.
  7. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    ok here's my pitch since i've done both:

    the difference between bjj and jjj is that it is highly likely for the jjj guy to experience eye gouging, hair pulling, fish-hooking...(er get the picture).
  8. oldshadow

    oldshadow Valued Member

    Agreed same as point fighting vs. kickboxing/boxing/MT
  9. Albert

    Albert Banned Banned

    one has 1 more word in its name...
  10. Humblebee

    Humblebee PaciFIST's evil twin

    I heard recently that the Gracies's were crosstraining in Wing Tsun because it's the best stand up art,[not my words]
  11. Adam

    Adam New Member

    You heard wrong.
  12. cjw314

    cjw314 New Member

    The difference between JJ and BJJ is simple;

  13. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Is that an informed opinion? 'Cos it's WAY off base.
  14. Adam

    Adam New Member

    I have never seen any source that indicated the Gracies do wing chun. However, some chunners and BJJ top guys have gotten together and found similarities in their styles. I remember Freeform posting something about a BJJ + WC seminar he went to.
    I do however doubt that the Gracie family has said "WT is the best stand up art" and has begun training in it. Please, do you have any documentation to prove this?
  15. Adam

    Adam New Member

    Huh? Where did Pacifist's post go? It wasn't disrespectful or anything.
    And I'm still waiting for an answer as to where you heard this
  16. AAAhmed46

    AAAhmed46 Valued Member

    Yeah, thats true, unfortunatly, I been to a TKD school, and all they say there is how TKD is the ONLY way to go.(Im not saying TKD discoarages cross training, its just my experience with one club)

    My master has a different view, he says I should stick to one style until i reach a desired level, then go on and learn a different style, saying that if you take two styles at the same time you will be confused. I...kind of agree, but not entirely. I mean, doesnt it make it easier to integrate styles?

    P.S, I have seen and sat in BJJ classes, but never Tjj classes, so I would not know much. Has there ever been a compitition between the two?
  17. cjw314

    cjw314 New Member

    It's only a slightly informed opinion - from what I learned in my research, BJJ is an 'improved' form of JJ, 'improved' meaning biting, elbows, 'whatever it takes' kind of 'techniques' added into Jiu-Jitsu. That's WAY off base?

    So BJJ = JiuJitsu + Gracie bros is wrong, then?
  18. Adam

    Adam New Member

    Yes, that's WAY off base. I believe you're confusing Brazillian Jiu Jitsu with something else. BJJ is actually more like judo than JJJ and doesn't bite, do elbows or anything else unsavoury. BJJ is 90% judo newaza (groundfighting), but more sophisticated.
    When you talk about "whatever it takes kind of techniques", you might be thinking of the Brazillian vale tudo martial arts scene, which is similar to MMA, but where everything truly goes.
    Where have you gotten your information on BJJ from?
  19. cjw314

    cjw314 New Member

    Little from the 'net, most was from a book I checked out, literally by the Gracie bros, claiming to teach BJJ . . .


    http://bjj.org/ ?
  20. Adam

    Adam New Member

    Taken from BJJ.org : "Most of the techniques of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu address grappling on the ground. There are some takedowns, self-defense techniques, and striking, but the core of the art involves improving, maintaining, or defending ground positions; along with submissions such as chokes and armlocks."

    Don't see any mention of biting or elbows here.

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