What's the difference between Jujitsu and Brazilian Jujitsu?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Keitarosuwa, Oct 22, 2003.

  1. Keitarosuwa

    Keitarosuwa New Member

    I want to learn a grappling art along with my TKD. What's the difference between Jujitsu and Bra-Jujitsu?
  2. 47Ronin

    47Ronin New Member

    What I heard about gracie jujitsu is that he wanted to fill in the blanks in japanese jujitsu so he devised his system.

    Welcome to MAP, I'm really tired so I probably am rambling.

    good night.
  3. thiaboxr2

    thiaboxr2 New Member

    Depending on the school, BJJ usually taught from 'the ground up'. Meaning you would be grappling on the ground most of the time. Since BJJ usually believes most fights end up on the ground, that is where your training will begin...on the ground. Occasionally you will be taught some standup action such as some throws and defenses against wrist grabs, bear hugs,chokes,.....AGAIN, greatly depends on the school.

    In Japanese JJ, I would assume that there is more standup defenses as well as plenty of groundwork. Same for other styles of Traditional JJ.

    BJJ tends to be more sport/competition orientated nowadays,But combined with another punching art is a great combination.

    Either way, both styles will compliment your TKD.:)
  4. Patrick Bateman

    Patrick Bateman Banned Banned

    BJJ leans more to practical testing of technique, i.e sparring it. Working against an actively resisting opponent. True BJJ is highly techincal with technique broken down into minute detail, 10 mins can be spent on just learning 1 nuance of a technique, leading to highly terchnically skilled practicioners, looking to gain the ability to flow from one technique to another in response to the moves of your opponent. Mainly on the ground, more takedowns than throws.Traditional JJ is less inclined in this way, more stand up.

    The main difference is the teaching method, the Gracies invented teaching and training methods designed to develop this flow.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2003
  5. mickydno3

    mickydno3 New Member

    gracie-jiu-jitsu is the best it deals more with ground tecqniqes but it is a better art.Rickson Gracie is undefeated tyson wont even fight him.royce gracie won the UFC 3 times against many other arts.gracie jiu-jitsu and brazilian jiu-jitsu are similar but the gracies use tecqunices more than strenght
  6. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    Better eh? That's a nice opinion, but by no means fact.
  7. Pika

    Pika New Member

    I have trained BJJ a few years now. The main difference, in my experience, is that the application of techniques is used in full resistance, therefore the BJJ arguement that "it works, we use it against resisting opponants" is often flung in the face of traditional JJJ players.

    The emphasis is almost entirely on ground positions and techniques, where traditional JJJ, applies itself to stand up.

    Thus its early success and current popularity in MMA events, which saw traditional striking fighters exposed for the weaknesses in grappling, not lack of skills and so on.....
  8. Hakko-Ryu

    Hakko-Ryu New Member

    i recently looked over a BJJ "self-defense" book compiled i believe by Renzo? and Royce Gracie. Their stand-up self defense aspect seemed to me like it's 90 percent Judo. Mostly Hip Throws, Osoto Garis, wrist locks, elbow locks (standing) and striking....and not trying to BASH or anything like that by any means, but from looking at the book it seems like they rather lack in that area. But then again how much can you tell from a book right? I know most BJJ schools don't go into the details of stand-up self defense but I believe it is still of importance to learn the stand up aspect of jujitsu...why is it that most BJJ schools take out this part/aspect of Jujitsu??? IMO I think it's still a very valuable tool to learn.
    now having tasted both BJJ and JJJ I see that both have equal strengths in what they specialize in. I know for a fact that BJJ is missing the JJJ counterpart stand-up aspect, especially the Judo (not sport Judo but "street"/combat Judo). My shihan from my old JJJ place would quite often teach us higher belt techniques (3rd to 5th degree and sometimes on up). The amount of acute pain dealt by the locks and pressure points he did were beyond anything i've ever felt before. I don't see why this kind of stuff can't be used for self defense, or on the ground even??? or why people deem it useless if they've never even ever tried it?? IMO it's affective and if done fast and efficiently it could be devastating. of course in some JJJ (depends) you'd be missing alot of the ground aspect of jujitsu that they emphasise in BJJ. So why not integrate the two correctly and usefully IMO??? Wouldn't the style of Jujitsu be even MORE complete that way??? For example...i've been learning BJJ now the past couple months. From my experience so far, I really don't see why pressure points cannot be integrated into ground fighting. I've tried it...and yes it might not get you a submission...but it sure as hell uncomfortable for the other person from what i've noticed and which is exactly the purpose for pressure points, to disrupt the flow of energy... and while doing so you can look for a better opening. So my point being...why not integrate? instead of always arguing which style is better...which is what i've been hearing CONSTANTLY these days.
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2003
  9. Pika

    Pika New Member

    You make good points. Yes, the BJJ stand up techniques are basic Judo techniques, and yes, as a rule of thumb, stand up by BJJ practitioners is lacking, although the trend to cross train these days has most BJJ stylist now incorporating Judo and/or wrestling into their game.

    The main focus of BJJ is the ground game. This exposes weaknesses in most styles. Although it is good to see a lot of traditional styles incorporating, or practicing their own styles grappling into the training methods.

    The main difference is in how the techniques are applied in full rsistance training. Time and again I have seen a technique from traditional JJJ applied to a non resisting partner and pondered to myself if it would work against a resisting partner.

    I have wrestled with JJJ stylists. Wrist lock attempts were not effective, pressure points did not bother me, and they had no understanding of the guard. They did have many things to offer me, and I them.

    As I have mentioned elsewhere, I am a huge fan of cross training, and honestly believe there is something to offer from all styles.

    Just answering the question to the best of my ability.
  10. Hakko-Ryu

    Hakko-Ryu New Member

    I've recently seen matches where wristlocks were properly applied and worked on the ground, with full resistance. It was simply applied efficiently and FAST. So fast that the guy had no time to tap...
    Well of course in training in "self-defense" situations, in BJJ, in JJJ, Karate, Kung-fu, any style, IMO there has to be some level of compliance involved. Whenever there is a set "situation/scene" involved in self defense training, for ex, a guy grabbing your wrist or your shirt, there has to be a degree of predetermined techniques and movements involved in the simulation right? otherwise how can you even train such techniques??? for ex. how would you practice judo throws if your uke anticipates your throw and resists every single time?? how would you even practice wrist locks if your uke sees it coming and resists before hand?I think this type of 'set' training is to get our mindset into a habit of how and when to react if such situation arise. Which isn't a bad thing in JJJ IMO.
  11. Pika

    Pika New Member

    Learn the technique with zero resistance, thats cool. You have to apply in a full sparring environment to know it works. If you can pull a technique off against a trainned resisting sparring partner, there is a good chance you will get it against an untrained fighter.

    If you don't spar full resistance, you never know it will work, and a bad place to find out is when you need it.
  12. Bon

    Bon Banned Banned

    I think the only reasons wrist locks work on the ground is because the guy can't move and you've got his arm locked up.
  13. stump

    stump Supersub

    I agree...the only time a wrist lock comes close to working is when the arm is trapped up so you can't get away from it.

    Go hunting for a wristlock without this and you've not got a prayer.

    You say that BJJers lack standup....true to some extent.....YOu'll find very few pure BJJers. The majority crosstrain. That's one of the other big strengths of BJJ...they know where they're good...they know where they're not and they actively encourage people to seek supplemntary training to fill the gaps .

    Not every art can say the same
  14. johndoch

    johndoch upurs

    "Not every art can say the same"

    Thats down to the individual not the art.
  15. stump

    stump Supersub

    I disagree John....some arts have the policy to kick your **** out the door to crosstrain....

    BJJ is one of them in my experience
  16. johndoch

    johndoch upurs

    I reckon that one instructor will be different than the other even in the same art. Some will encourage cross training and some wont.

    But I suppose its down to what we've been exposed too.

    Does BJJ incorporate striking skills in its cirriculum?
  17. Pika

    Pika New Member

    The mere fact that BJJ encourages cross training is proof that the style lacks stand up. I cross train, and believe it is necessary.

    I mentioned this on a previous post on this thread.

    So no, most BJJ schools do not include striking, but encourage you to find it from the best source that suits your training needs. For me that was boxing, and now kick boxing.
  18. Hakko-Ryu

    Hakko-Ryu New Member

    The wrist lock worked from the guard actually...don't ask me how...he just did it really f-in fast.
    Yea i agree that BJJ encourages cross training...but i was more referring to the "self defense" training aspect (certain scenarios, defense against knives, etc etc.) Which is obviously THERE in BJJ but not always present in most schools...otherwise why would Renzo and Royce compile a WHOLE entire book dedicated to it? and again i still consider this aspect of SD in the MA an important one...otherwise it would seem like we're learning the MA for the purpose of "fighting in the ring," or in a tournament....some people may want that, and some people don't.
  19. Pika

    Pika New Member

    BJJ is broken into three aspects. Sport, self defence, vale tudo. The techniques overlap, and training in each inhances the other.

    Some schools train all three, some train specifically in one or two.

    I guess you need to find what suits you.

    I will say this however, my BJJ vale tudo training has been very effective in the few times I was forced to use it.
  20. Lobsang

    Lobsang Guest

    Wrist locks work if you've given the other person something like a broken nose dislocated jor or broken flouting rib just before to distract them and then do to dam fast.
    Unfortunately you cant do that when sparring.

    I'm learning KJJ Kempo Ju Jitsu, it's dam violent :bang:.

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