Whats so bad about satanism?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Banpen Fugyo, Apr 5, 2005.

  1. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    Of course I do things I don't want to do. I go to class. I agree that human beings are inherently selfish at an instinctual level, but that doesn't mean that just going with our instincts will make us happy. If I just went with my instincts I'd probably sleep in, miss class and eat a large pizza. If I kept this up, however, I'd be fat and failing out of school. It's the ability to use logic to overcome our instincts when we know it is for the long term good that puts us on a higher level than other animals.

    Tekkengod: so I assume you find hapiness primarily if not wholly from the satisfaction of your physical desires? I think your idea of hapiness is the one that is skewed as it brings only transient pleasure and not lasting peace or satisfaction. Of course, saying someone's idea of hapiness is "skewed" is somewhat illogical in that hapiness is completely subjective. But then again, it makes some people happy to eat other people's feces.
     
  2. Sheyja

    Sheyja Valued Member

    I disagree, by definition, an experience that is disillussioning would 'remove the illusion'. It would be experience that would allow you to see things for how they really were.
     
  3. Sheyja

    Sheyja Valued Member

    You do do what you want, beacause as you've stated, if you didn't go to class, and you did sleep in, you'd probably get fat and fail school, and that's what you don't want. Perhaps the wording was originally misplaced. It's not quite so much people only do what they want (although I would very much agree) but more so, people will do whatever they feel necessary in order to not be unhappy. Even though their practice often defeats the object.

    For example:

    Jack decides to clean the garage, which has boxes and stuff all over it. He's been meaning to clean it for ages but hasn't been bothered. He goes in and starts to pick stuff up and clean. At this point, he wants to clean it more than he doesn't, otherwise he'd go sit back down like he has previously.
    After a while, he's moved a few boxes and picked up some stuff, he gets bored. He still really wants to clean the garage, but he doesn't want to do the work. He still wants the garage clean more than he doesn't, or again, he'd simply walk out and sit down again. So he keeps working, but because he doesn't want to do the work, he starts the project his desire to clean outside of himself as he gets more frustrated, thinking that he's being pressurised into cleaning it, telling himself he doesn't want to, but that's he's being made to, or that he has to. Whereas if his deisre not to do it was greater than his desire to do it, he'd walk out. So, unfortunately for her, Jack's wife comes home and sticks her head round the door.
    "Oh you're finally cleaning the garage!" to which Jack boils over, projecting his desire to clean onto his wife and blaming his work load in the same direction.
    "I'm <deleted> doing it!

    If he really didn't want to, he wouldn't have.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 21, 2005
  4. Sheyja

    Sheyja Valued Member

    Animals don't do things because it's makes them happy, they do it to survive. Reproduction and survival are the animal traits. It's the ability to submerge and follow our desire that makes us different from children. That and the ability to create. It didn't take long for man to put a rock on a stick, whereas animals are only just starting (in a few species case) to use rocks to break things!
     
  5. tekkengod

    tekkengod the MAP MP

    I find happiness in what ever form i can attain it. The physical, the emotional, where ever i can find it. If you derive happiness from the thought of an invisable man watching you 24/7 then i think therapy is the best option at this point. I don't understand how that has anything to do with happiness. happiness is attained in many ways. if its peace and satisfaction you seek, sex will give you both. lasting satisfaction or peace is attained by reaching a goal.
     
  6. Maverick

    Maverick New Member

    But if you don't go to class, then you won't get qualified, you won't get a decent job, you'll get in trouble with your parents, teachers etc. So actually you do want to go to class.
     
  7. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    For the record I said dellusion - as in delluding oneself etc..

    onyomi brings up a good point.

    Indulgence is not the exact same thing as selfish, although it is rightly construed as such.

    I do indulge myself sometimes, but I do my best to not over - indulge.
    This would be bad for me, as I think it would be true to say it does not lead to a happy place...

    So not indulging is selfish too..

    eg. I think I sometimes indulge myself when I come on here :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2005
  8. Timmy Boy

    Timmy Boy Man on a Mission

    The only problem I have with Satanism is that I've never met a single Satanist who doesn't wear black all the time and listen to heavy metal *cough* image *cough* pretentious *cough*
     
  9. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    hehe, dont get satanism confused with a goth kid :p

    Anyways, im not a satanist, and i find things wrong with it like everyone else, but what I do find is that its a very humanistic philosophy. No, I dont want the whole world to be a satanist, but thats the same with everything. Imagine if the whole world were Christian, or Muslim, or ::shiver:: morman?! You cant have satanism without Chrisitanity, and you cant have Christianity without opposition. Like yin and yang there has to be a balance, and at least satanism is a pretty decent one
     
  10. BendzR

    BendzR New Member

    Why can't you have Satanism without Christianity ? There's zero correlation between "opposing" religions.
     
  11. dtrip

    dtrip New Member

    Something that the OP didnt mention, is that a great deal of Satanism is about
    expressing hatred towards Jesus Christ. This is a fact.

    Be very careful: Satanism is not a positive way to think. Its all about NOT:

    1. Not following God (in any form), because then you become a blind follower.
    But if I follow Satan, wont I become a blind follower too ?

    2. Not showing mercy, or tolerance, to idiots, because they dont deserve it.
    Who is to say who deserves what ?

    3. Not being good to people who dont deserve it, because then you will be
    a victim/exploited, etc. 100% guaranteed way to become what is commonly
    known as "an a..hole".

    4. Be good, loving, just, etc, DEPENDING ON WHO YOU ARE DEALING WITH.
    100% guaranteed way to become a "two-faced SOB".

    Do you really think those teachings are "smart" ? Those are hatred and loneliness,
    hidden inside a package of arguments.

    Dimitris
    Greece
     
  12. BendzR

    BendzR New Member

    I agree, living by those ideas will end in tears for everyone around you, and your self. It's just not realistic.

    Either way, the thinking is based on unleashing the animal and individual selfishness within you. I can see it existing without Christianity in the picture.

    The dumb thing about being totally individually selfish is that it is not beneficial to the invidual. As a social animal, we have to put up with society sometimes, against are intitial will.

    For example, we pay our tax, not because its an individually smart move (hell, who wants to lose money?) but because we know if we don't, we are breaching the standard of our society. In the end, its going to be our loss (when you go to jail, or whatever).

    Being intolerant to people we perceive as 'idiots' will cost you your job in a lot of cases. Not so smart. Putting up with an annoying person for the greater good is much wiser.
     
  13. tekkengod

    tekkengod the MAP MP


    1. WRONG!!! FOR THE BILLIONTH TIME SATANISIM HAS NOTHING, READ IT, NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BIBLICAL SATAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ALL SATANISIM IS is a decent BELIEF SYSTEM, NOT A RELIGION, that ENSURES that you get by, and aside from that. think about what you said.

    2. The people in the position to give or with hold the mercy are the ones who have the right to determine who does and dosen't recieve it.

    3. Wrong, people do it all the time, works just fine. and its true, be careful who and how you treat people, some will reward you, others will take advantage of you, all its saying is be careful.

    4. Everyone is 2 faced, its just a matter of who lets it be known and who dosen't.

    5. It sounds alot smarter than most of what christianity teaches, thats most certainly my opinion. If someone needs religion because they are lonely then their problems sink alot farther inwards and should seek professional help to avoid eating a bullet.
     
  14. dtrip

    dtrip New Member

    tekkengod,

    Number 1 above is not wrong, Satan is a worldwide recognized symbol, just as Jesus
    is. When the word "Satan" is included somewhere, this means things. If it didnt, why
    keep this name and scare off a lot of potential christian members ? Give us a break,
    all right?

    Thankfully BendzR got the key word right : society, social beings, etc. You cant
    walk around in society suspecting people, and treating like **** those that YOU
    THINK deserve it, and fit in there.

    I really try to think who would hang out with a person that thinks like that, and
    how that person could ever have a sincere friendship or relationship, or what would
    he teach his children, etc.And another thing: Ask yourself sincerely "would I like my father/mother/wife/husband/best buddy/son/daughter, to think like that ? ".

    I think that only ****ed-off people would embrace such an aggressive way of thinking
    and acting. People like the "Taxi Driver" or "D-Fense" (Michael Douglas in "Falling Down"), for example.

    In any case, all should do what they believe is right.But let us know how you
    are doing after some time (if you have any friends left, for example).

    C ya,

    Dimitris
    Greece
     
  15. Tomanak

    Tomanak Nil Desperendum

    TekkenGod Said:

    WRONG!!! FOR THE BILLIONTH TIME SATANISIM HAS NOTHING, READ IT, NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BIBLICAL SATAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ALL SATANISIM IS is a decent BELIEF SYSTEM, NOT A RELIGION, that ENSURES that you get by, and aside from that. think about what you said.

    2. The people in the position to give or with hold the mercy are the ones who have the right to determine who does and dosen't recieve it.


    ---------------------------------------------------------

    Hmmm... okay, point taken already. It doesn't have anything at all to do with the Bibical Satan. I know!!!

    You know what? One of my friends is the VP for Product Development at Proctor and Gamble. I'll call him and tell him to make and market a new brand of soap and call it... SATAN!! It will have big, bold letters spelling out S-A-T-A-N on the box, and in the ads, the word SATAN will repeatedly be flashed in the screens. And the print ads will have the word SATAN prominently displayed. SATAN SOAP.

    As the CEO of Proctor and Gamble is firing him, I shall tell my friend to argue: "No, wait a minute!!! Satan's just a name! That's all! It wasn't meant to be associated with anything!! It's just a bar of soap!!! Just a bar of soap to ensure that you get by the day smelling nice and feeling clean!!! There were many other names to call it, but I just happened to choose Satan!! Its not meant to be affiliated with any ideas!!!"

    So Levey called it Satanism and is quick to point out that it has absolutely, positively nothing to do with the Satan the world at large knows?? Alright, so it's not a case of being anti-Christian... its just a flat-out case of STUPIDITY. And to think, Satanism condemns ignorance and stupidity above all things! Jeez, if only for this he deserves to be tar-and-feathered :eek: What a complete peabrain!

    I know!!!! I'll make a group called AFAQ, which stands for Americans for Al Qaeda. When the angry mob comes to my house, I'll explain to them that "Al Qaeda" actually means "strip loin steak" and whenever we shout "Hail Al Qaeda" we actually mean "Hail Strip Loin Steak!" It has NOTHING to do with the Al Qaeda of popular conception and perception! Just like being a SATANist has nothing to do with SATAN, right?? In fact, the nine tenets of the AFAQ bible are actually "pretty cool" and just promotes "living life to the fullest and enjoying strip-loin steak".

    If the example above were true, then I wouldn't necessarily be a terrorist or a terrorist supporter. I'd just be STOOOOOOOPID. That's my opinion of Levey, his stupid writings, and of anyone silly enough to buy into this pseudo-intellectual, philo-wannabe cr@p.

    As for the second point, you mentioned that "the people who are in the position to give or with hold mercy are the ones who have the right to determine who does and who doesn't receive it". That basically means anyone STRONGER than you can decide that you don't deserve mercy. That isn't Satanism or StripLoinSteakism, my friend. That's being an anarchial fascist. While you're strolling down the street feeling tough with the little knife strapped on your leg, someone just might pass by with a loaded .357 Desert Eagle under his jacket. "Hey wait a minute", he thinks, "this is the guy who thinks hiding knives in pant legs are cool. I don't think so. He deserves no mercy". And because he is a position to give or withhold mercy, and has decided that you don't deserve any, he blows you away.

    Or turning the tables, you enter a store and find that the man in front of you has snuck 20 items in the 15 item express lane. You decided that he deserves no mercy. Are you in a position to give or withhold this mercy? Sure you are -- he's got his back turned, he's unaware, and you've got the little knife hidden in your leg. So you stab him dead. The responding officer arrives and makes the arrest. Now HE'S in the position to give or withhold mercy. He sees you and thinks "Wait a minute, this seems like a stand-up guy, and he frowns on any organized religion. What a rebel! What a visionary! He's so cool!! I think I'll just be merciful and let him walk away! And away you run.

    This is why I don't agree with the "he who has the position of advantage dispels mercy accordingly" mentality. Hobbes wrote about it in his book "Leviathan", and as far as I'm concerned anyone who gets swayed by this philosophy seriously lacks sophisticated thinking.
     
  16. BendzR

    BendzR New Member

    To suggest Mercy is defined by individuals, even though we live in a Society, is bordering on retarded.

    Unless you don't care about consequences, then go for it. Personally I enjoy not being in Jail.
     
  17. Mark_Campbell

    Mark_Campbell Valued Member

    wow!!!!

    i left this argument alone on page 5 and your all still at it. Well done siphus and tekken (prominently) for some excellent points, youve fought dogma at every turn, great entertainment.

    I think people should remember the title question here "whats so bad about satanism?" read the stated parametres of the argument in the first post and have a go at shooting them down. Nobody is trying to corrupt the masses, no one is trying to sacrifice jeb bush to the god of cheese and NO ONE is trying to say your religion is wrong, your stupid, convert. So cmon people, take a step out of the trenches and have a look at the battlefield for a change instead of just sniping each other.

    So i agree, satanism has some excellent practical points. They are sometimes not nice to hear, but we dont live in star trek we live in the 21st century. However i find it fairly one dimensional as with most arguments, i`ll try to explain

    "IV Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates!
    -Kinda mean, but doesnt seem like a bad idea"

    i walk past homeless people almost every day, sometimes i feel sad and maybe a little guilty, sometimes i even drop some money. That is the level of participation i see from most Believers (christians etc). Other times i walk past them and i hate them, i hate the fact that they sit there and beg even though Everyone in this country is provided a home, no one needs to be homeless, there are always jobs, there is always government help. Dont believe me? i dont care, if your destitute in britain all you need to do is say so and the councils will find you somewhere to stay, give you food and heat and bedding so you dont die. Please dont argue that from there it is hard to get a job in todays supermarket economy. What im saying is that there is almost no circumstance you cant pull yourself up from here. Yet i see the same people sitting there day after day

    In the same breath i hate people who live off government handouts, having kids to get more money, pretending there single parents, saying their disabled or injured when they are not. You can make £2000 a month doing this. Dont believe me? visit the council estates in Glasgow.

    This might not be nice to hear but how many times religiously focused or not, have you decided to help a homeless person, have you ever taken them for something to eat, have you ever put them up for the night? You all must have seen at least one, you look at the floor as you go by, why im not sure. Am i made to feel guilty by upbringing? My parents never stopped and helped a begger, neither has any priest of minister i have ever seen. Is it satanism? do humans really just dispense kindness to the deserving? then why do i feel so bad walking by?

    This is all open to interpretation. Im not a Christain in the tradional sense (church on sundays, studying the bible etc etc) But everytime i find the courage to look a homeless person in the eyes as i go by i dont feel hate filled, i dont feel paranoid. I can imagine a God staring back at me, right at the moment it matters, trying to coax me into doing the right thing and becoming a better human being. It might even work someday i dont know

    So i have only responded to one rule here (they take some time to respond to, and i can see the logic very clearly) There might be something wrong with this rule or statement. Clearly everyone besides the mythical jesus figure walks by the wanting, everyone thinks for themselves first on most occasions. But this statement doesnt account for aspects of humanity, uncontrollable kindness, heat of the moment self sacrifice could never be explained by satanism. Do events like this have any significant bering in a satanic world?
     
  18. PsiCop

    PsiCop Antonio gets the women...

    Lavey only used the word "Satan" to scare Christians. Even though the similarities to the being are there, it's supposedly just a name. You guys have argued about that enough.
     
  19. tekkengod

    tekkengod the MAP MP

    I'm not swayed by anyones philosophy, i'm not a satanist. i was just making a point, one which seems to have very easily gotten under your skin. you just proved my point, the individual is the one in the position to give or with hold mercy, because when the barrel is pressed against my temple, no one elses version of mercy is going to matter but HIS, why? because he is in the position to make that call, isn't he. what the responding officer considers mercy is another matter entierly and is one more instance where the individual is given the ability to give or take it. you don't nessecarily have to be STRONGER, just in the right position at the right time. its just a point i was making. Now i personally believe in being merciful, {unlike some deities we know} but that dosen't mean that the situational differance is not in effect to the person in the superiour position.
     
  20. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    Says who?


    This is what I've been talking about. You have closed the doors to understand and have completly shut out any other perspectives, (strangly one of the tenets of satanism). Are you 90 years old? Have you gone through an entire life following the rules of satanism to come to this conclusion? Nope. None of us has. So how the hell can you say such a blanketed statement. The same with the rest of you. How can ANYONE, christian, satanist, taoist, atheist, ANYONE, say that ______ will happen?

    "It will end in tears" give me a freaking break. You sound like a puppet and we all know whos hand is up your ass.
     

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