What's next for BJJ?

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu Jitsu' started by MrAndrewV, May 14, 2007.

  1. MrAndrewV

    MrAndrewV New Member

    I will try to keep this brief.

    BJJ made such a huge splash because of 2 reasons:

    1) it was a style of fighting that no one else trained to beat

    2) the emphasis on only using techniques that were training-safe and effective meant that all its practitioners knew how to use their techniques at full speed and at full power.

    But now that everyone else has learned the lesson and is training ground fighting as well pure BJJ seems to have lost its edge against MMAs.

    So my question is: what is the solution to this problem, if it indeed exists? ;)
  2. Gufbal1981

    Gufbal1981 waiting to train...

    Evolve just like every other art has.
  3. Oversoul

    Oversoul Valued Member

    Cross-train and maybe put a bit more emphasis on throws/takedowns/clinching. BJJ is already a very good tool for what it does.
  4. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    BJJ is just one element in MMA. Early on it dominated because people were so unfamiliar with it and underestimated it out of that lack of exposure to it.

    It'll be around for a long time to come. But the MMA game itself has evolved so BJJ is just one more component of the game... not the entire game...
  5. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    Are you saying BJJ has lost its edge in every context, or just MMA?
  6. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    There is nowhere to go. It is what it is. It also has something other MA's don't, and that is it is a sport as well. Adding in striking or a standup game won't make BJJ better. It will make it MMA. One thing I love about BJJ is it's honesty with what it is. Taking that away will make it another antiquated style with no identity and claims to be the "ultimate in self defense."
  7. Atharel

    Atharel Errant

    Eddie Bravo is the solution, obviously!
  8. Scarlet Mist

    Scarlet Mist Banned Banned

    Holla back. BJJ is BJJ. No ifs, no buts, no whens, no unproved theories.
    BJJ is a good method of groundfighting. It doesn't need to evolve unless something pops up that is vastly superior on the ground.
  9. Alexander

    Alexander Possibly insane.

    To be honest, unless someone developes a groundbreaking new concept on training methodology then it seems unlikely that anything will come along that's 'superior' to it. But, equally, now that all other martial arts know about BJJ and Judo training methodology, and since this is a world where I can get a message from Durham to Sydney in less than a few seconds, its pretty obvious that the other styles are capable of beating BJJ because of the free information flow. Its good because of the intense competition, but it implies really that the only way to get better than your opponent is to traing more intelligently and intensely.
  10. MrAndrewV

    MrAndrewV New Member

    To flashlock: I just meant in MMA. Obviously BJJs techniques aren't going to suddenly stop working just because other MAs are aware of them.

    Persoanlly I think BJJ is going to have to evolve in some way. One of the major strengths in BJJ is that it is 'proven in the ring'. If pure BJJ fighters can't defeat cross-trainers then that claim loses alot of its power.

    Yes I know it will still have been proven in the ring in the past but every martial art can claim that at some point in the past it was a dominant style.

    If BJJ is going to maintain its "street-cred" it needs to own now, in the present.

    It has to find a way to evolve, while still retaining its core philosophy.

    Any ideas on how to do that without becoming just another watered-down cross training style?
  11. Atharel

    Atharel Errant

    Not really. It takes someone trained in a few arts to beat someone trained in just BJJ. That alone is still saying something. And strong emphasis on BJJ+something else still is one of the most popular combos used by some of the most devastating all-around fighters. Anderson Silva, Shogun Rua, Wanderlei Silva, the Noguiera Brothers, BJ Penn, and many others - all BJJ black belts with a complementary focus (Muay Thai or Boxing).
  12. TheMightyMcClaw

    TheMightyMcClaw Dashing Space Pirate

    I think that Atharel is right. BJJ is still 'proven in the ring'; it's pure BJJ which isn't valid for MMA anymore. BJJ has found it's niche as the primary grappling style for mixed martial arts competitions; many MMAists still train BJJ, they just train it along with Muay Thai, wrestling, etc. The necessity of cross training for MMA hasn't invalidated BJJ; it's insured it's position in the MMA world.

    As for how BJJ will evolve... it'll be subtle things, I suspect. Eduardo Telles "turtle guard" stuff seems to be a pretty good example of innovation. Before I heard of him, I thought of turtling as simply being one step away from getting choked out. Now that he's setting up sweeps and leglocks from there... maybe it is a valid position to attack from. Perhaps we'll see someone come along and popularize attacks from inside the guard before too long.
    As Royce Gracie said, "we're constantly coming up with new sweeps, new transitions." It is still an evolving art, but it's not evolving into something else - it's evolving into better BJJ.
  13. Oversoul

    Oversoul Valued Member


    I don't see how you can possibly have enough evidence to make that claim as a rule.
  14. Atharel

    Atharel Errant

    Fight records? It's my honest impression that mono-stylist (not-BJJ) fighters lose to mono-stylist BJJ'ers overwhelmingly, except maybe for shooto or Combat Sambo guys, whereas BJJ guys run into trouble against wrestling/boxing, muay thai/sambo, Judo/kickboxing, etc.
  15. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    I mean is no one is posting threads like, "What's next for Shotokan?" or "What's next for Wing Chun?" when BJJ has something they don't, and that's organized global competitions (and yes I realize Shotokan and WC schools do compete, but just not so in such a way that they became sports like how BJJ has).

    Wanna fight? I promise I won't throw a single punch :D
  16. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Why must BJJ evovle to be more well rounded? Does Muay Thai need to incorporate a ground game to keep it's credibility? Why can't arts excel in their given area and take pride in that?
  17. Oversoul

    Oversoul Valued Member

    Judo is one of the most popular sports in the world. Boxing is a bigger sport than BJJ. It's not as though BJJ has the sole claim to being a sport.

    Well, since I'm sick right now, you'd better be able to beat me.
  18. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    I didn't say it was the only martial sport. But many other arts do not have such a luxury as far as "direction" goes. For the record there is....

    Sanda/San Shou
    Sport Jujitsu
    Muay Thai
    Greco Roman Wrestling
    Sport TKD
    Submission Grappling

    And probably many many more I am missing :)

    YES! I always love an unfair advantage....must be the street fighter within me
  19. Oversoul

    Oversoul Valued Member

    You include shootfighting and submission grappling in that list? Then as far as Atharel's claim (even though you made the list and not him) that it takes someone who trains in a few arts to beat someone who trains in BJJ alone...

    What does a pure-BJJ practitioner have on a submission grappler or shootfighter?
  20. Atharel

    Atharel Errant

    I never denied that shooto is an art that has given BJJ problems (though arguably not as much as BJJ gives it).

    And submission grappling is a sport, not an art. It's a venue for BJJ, CSW, catch, shooto, judo, sambo, etc people to compete. Oddly enough every ADCC champ has been a BJJ guy. Anyway if someone says they train submission grappling it means they train for submission grappling under a BJJ, catch, sambo, w/e instructor.

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