whats a good grappling style?

Discussion in 'MMA' started by -BALANCE-, Sep 11, 2004.

  1. -BALANCE-

    -BALANCE- New Member

    (i had to re sent this thread coz i accidently out it in the kung fu forum...sorry uve already seen this thread)
    Hey i just need some advice from an expert as to what is an effective grappling style...(I'm referring to bjj, wrestling, judo etc...I'm assuming they all go under the title of grappling martial arts)
    I've been doing taekwondo for about half a year but after i get good i want to fuse my hand to hand combat skills with a grappling art to develop my versatility as a fighter because you could be kickboxing champion or a kung fu master but as soon as a grappler gets you to the ground your under water basically, your in their domain and if you are not knowledgeable in that area you will go down same as if your a grappler and your fighting a kick boxer and you cant take the fight to the ground.

    i base my opinion of fact though because I've seen a fight between a kung fu expert and a jujitsu practitioner. had the fighters remained on their feet the kung fu expert would have won however it is hard for someone who is not knowledgeable in the art of grappling to not be taken down to the ground. They where on their feet for about 30 seconds till the jujitsu man found an opportunity and tackled him to the ground and put him in a lock. bang fight over. wait more like aaaah snap...

    ....and for all you grapplers the same principle applies. i recommend for you that you do some Mauy Thai kickboxing or wing chun(wing chun is better but extremely different, takes more time to understand and master)

    i know i said i do taekwondo but only because they do it at my school and its convenient for me, its more of a sport than an effective fighting system. ill be doing wing chun soon because its simple, economic and an incredibly effective fighting style(the best if you ask me) but again as i said you could be great at wing chun or kickboxing but if you have no knowledge in other areas of fighting i.e. grappling you wont go well against a grappler unless your incredibly good at wing chun (whick deals with defending grapplers) but again suppose you do go 2 the ground with a grappler then your underwater or your a fish out of water or whatever (unless your me in a few years) :) or you had the same idea and your versatile. this idea is also part of the principles of jeet koon do (bruce lees philosophy)

    so yeah...what's a good grappling stlye?!...
     
  2. Trent Tiemeyer

    Trent Tiemeyer Valued Member

    What do you have available to you?
     
  3. Ikken Hisatsu

    Ikken Hisatsu New Member

    which one of these arts has been proven again and again to be effective? refresh my memory?

    as for the groundfighting, any of the arts you listed will give you a huge benefit. do you go to college? I imagine there is a wrestling team if you are american which would be a great start as well as free.
     
  4. gakami

    gakami Valued Member

    You sir, are implying the correct. The best way to respond to these "what's the best style" questions is to ask them "what's the best movie" or what's the best food".
     
  5. gakami

    gakami Valued Member

    wing chun is better he said. if you try to reason with him, he'll say muay thai is a sport whereas wing chun has lethal techniques more suited for the street. so by that logic, of course wing chun is "best".
     
  6. Stan O'Kella

    Stan O'Kella Hmmmmmmmmmmm?

    Wahey!!! a little bit of controversy, I love it!

    As for the initial question, all the ones mentioned are good grappling styles, as with anything it depends on who is teaching and if it is a school conducive to your learing and growth.

    If its a good school then any of the previous "grappling" arts would be good, or any other numerous "grappling" arts.
     
  7. notquitedead

    notquitedead used to be Pankration90

    Like Ikken said if you're going to a college in the US there may be a wrestling team (they aren't as common as they used to be...).

    If not, look around for submission grappling/submission wrestling, BJJ, sambo, or judo.

    Then again, if you want to learn to put striking and grappling together, why not try MMA? :D Training in a striking style and a grappling style separately doesn't help you put it all together. You need to do sparring with either no gloves or MMA style gloves (that leave your fingers open so you can grab stuff) where grappling and striking is allowed. If you're striking style even trains you to fight in the clinch, it will be different from how a grappling style will. It's good to find something between the two so you can defend against takedowns (or do them) and strike. It's also good to get used to striking while worrying about takedowns, and grappling while being hit.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2004
  8. Yukimushu

    Yukimushu MMA addict

    A friend of mine who's loves his Tae Kwon Do never used too see the point of grappling, believing that he were good enough, then he'd be capable of avoiding the take down. Until the day he seen a Royce Gracie documentry where he challenged all forms of martial artists and ultimatly beat them on the ground.

    I personally don't understand the sense or logic of anyone who believes, or has convinced themselves that grappling is useless.


    Which grappling style is better? Like any martial art, they all have their pro's and con's... which ones are availible in your area? Thats always a good place to start :p

    I don't personally agree with you there having done alittle wing chun myself; but we're all entitled to their own opinion :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2004
  9. -BALANCE-

    -BALANCE- New Member

    yeah it was the Royce Gracie documentory that i saw except just the one scene where he fights the kung fu dude. man hes just playing around with him. also i saw a ufc fight where a wing tsun (wing chun) person fights a judo/wrestler. that fight lasted exactly 21 seconds. the submition fighter tackles him to the ground then rpeeatedly punches him in the face....
    thanks for the advice(everybody) im not looking to take up a grappling style now because i dont have the time (school, exams etc) i just needed some
    advice and when i do have the time ill look into it.
    and yeah you cant really label one stlye the best, it all depends on the level of skill of the individual...i cant stand those pople who just think that their style is the best and dont want the hear anyone elses opponion. that exactly how you get beaten. its okay if you think your style is good as long as you dont underestimate other styles. Mauy Thai as i said is in my oppinion also quite an effective striking style. i saw a documentory on it and ive done a little. its been labeled the king of martial arts because the fighters in thai land have had korean taekwondo teams, karate teams, fung fu teams from hong kong all come and challenge them and they all get knocked out in the first round, its not because there bad fighters its because the thai fighters can take so much punnishment and can dish out quite a lot. and because the other styles waste time doing all this fancy stuff (like forms etc) that doesent mean anything. also mauy thai fighters can fight at close range hence the use of the lethal knees and elbow strikes and smuther taekwon do people who need huge ammounts of space to fight. because of its close range dimension it works well on the street...it would be interesting to see a grappler against a mauy thai kickboxer but again it all depends on the skill of the individual and their knowledge, if you know exactly how someone from another stlye is going to attack you then you will know how to adapt to the fight. a person who is ecclectic and has taken what works well from a number of stlyes...now that a true fighter and will be hard for a fighter from one traditional art to fight.
     
  10. Yukimushu

    Yukimushu MMA addict

    I believe i have that video, it's an earlier UFC if im not mistaken, where the Wing Chun practitioner is dressed all in black?


    Very well spotted :) I hope this means you have intention to learn to fight close quater as well :)

    I remember when i used to love kicking, but my hands were terrible. Once you closed me down i would panic because i wasn't used to fighting at such a close distance. It's a horrible feeling and you always panic and worry about the guy comming too close to you!


    Yeah, both the mental and physical conditioning required in thai boxing is incredible! thats why it's one of my faverioute fighting arts.
     
  11. -BALANCE-

    -BALANCE- New Member



    yep thats it. he just was not ready for a grappler





    yeah im looking forward to starting WC its a verry close range style and uses lots of knees and elbows. dont be mistaken by that UFC fight. that guy obviously wasnt a very knowledgable fighter. when applied well its prety good.





    yeah their amazing. in the documentory i saw there was a fight and in the first round one of them copped a jarring elbow the cheekbone and was gashing blood. they stopped the fight so the guy could get it cleared up and then continued on! the guy ended up going on to win the fight throught a knock out.
     
  12. Yukimushu

    Yukimushu MMA addict

    I've done alittle wing chun before and it didn't really do much for me in the terms of close quater fighting. I always used to panic when people were in close as i always favored kicking. But since i quit Wing chun and started boxing, wow it's made a difference on my performance.
     
  13. crumpet

    crumpet Valued Member

    I train in kung fu and see the advantages of grappling, but personally i'm just not interested. Fighting skills are important to me, but at this stage I'm just interested in utilising what's in my art to fight with. My bf trains in jap jujutsu and has just started judo, and the one and only argument we've had over our styles was when he said i couldn't help him improve his grappling skills cause he could take blows to the head :bang: so obviously striking is useless since he can take headshots, and of course the chances of him getting into a fight with a skilled striker is minimal, so everyone that he WILL get into a fight with are drunk or high off their face, so strikes won't work since they won't feel it, but locks and chokes will. therefore grappling is better :rolleyes: lol, in all seriousness, he apparently meant that i couldn't help improve his skill on grappling itself since i'm literally 2x lighter than him. But I still don't see how a lighter person isn't good to train with to improve ur throwing techniques. Sure, we're technically easier to throw since we're light, but at the same time (as a striker) I thought trying to throw me from my strikes would be good, since the likelihood is that ppl will try to knock ur head off in a fight. At the same time, we're both going through a stage where we both just want to improve the skill of our arts itself, so we don't train together much. It's also safer so I don't rip his head off in case we get into another fight about helping improve each other's skills, hehe. I wonder if that is a common thought amongst grapplers? that training with a striker can't improve the skill itself (not the fighting skill)? In my mind, even though i just want to improve the skill of my art, training it against different fighting methods will still improve that skill because u might see where u need to improve (eg. body positioning, angles, structure, etc). comments?
     
  14. Yukimushu

    Yukimushu MMA addict

    Blows too the head aren't good for you. He might be able to take one or two light shots to the head, but hit him hard in the side of the jaw, and i pretty much guarantee he'll go down for a while... everybody does. It's a natural reaction.
     
  15. TheMachine

    TheMachine Valued Member

    it all depends on who is teaching you. It may be the "best" style you are practicing but if your teacher sucks, you will never get any better. I personally like BJJ and wrestling. Judo is also good especialy if you can learn how to do the throws with no gi
     
  16. notquitedead

    notquitedead used to be Pankration90

    TheMachine,

    Even if you have a bad teacher you can get better. If you're teacher sits in the corner mumbling to himself during the entire lesson while you and some other students gear up and beat the crap out of eachother or grapple or whatever, you'll get better.

    Even with a good teacher, if he holds you back and doesn't let you spar enough or whatever you won't improve very fast.
     
  17. Ikken Hisatsu

    Ikken Hisatsu New Member

    looks like someone forgot to tell that to Ray Sefo and Mark Hunt :D
     
  18. Stuart H

    Stuart H On the Mandarin bandwagon

    They're all useful in some way. I would like to do more Judo, because I feel it's a situation that would often present itself, i.e you are striking, guy grabs your arms to try and control you. Think how many schoolboy fights you've seen this happen.

    I'd like to do submission wrestling because it would give me great submissions and ground control, but also there are no techniques which use the clothing as a handle.

    Sambo would also be great to learn how to violently pick up my opponent and throw him on the floor.
     
  19. Yukimushu

    Yukimushu MMA addict

    lol yeah alright, they're an exception of course! :D i was going to mention some exceptions just to cover me back from people like yourself ;) :p
     
  20. Hybrid_Killer

    Hybrid_Killer New Member

    From a self defense perspective the grappling and basic groundwork of judo is the best imo.
     

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