What would I learn in Eskrima?

stances

Well, this has kicked up some dust I must say,
I dont consider the stance of Nick in the picture to be low, I would say more medium, also the stances of the two guys ( Norman and francis ) are not what I would call low, I call it low when your backside is almost on the floor, cat stance? it looks to me like more of a back stance or weight shift , my understanding of a cat stance is when the lead foot is drawn back to the rear foot , the ball of the foot only on the floor ready to spring out a front kick. Eskrima styles? I have only a very very brief fliratation with doce pares to base my opinions on.
The guy who made the first post said what can I expect to learn in eskrima? This implies to me that he has a background in other martial arts not fma and is wanting to compare the more shall we say traditional arts to eskrima.
Belts? I don't see any mention on the Villasin, teofel sites about belts, don't think balintawak generally has belts, maybe some school has invented the belt grades to accomodate twisted western egos.
As far as kung fu handwork is concerned, yes GM Nick trained with GM Johny Chuiten and I asked Nick if the handwork in Nickelstick was influenced by this and was told in no uncertain terms NO. It is hard to seperate totally techniques from art to art as hell a punch is a punch right so there will be similarity in delivery etc in multiple arts. Age? well generally speaking I feel safe in saying that westerners are not as ( naturally )flexible as orientals simply due to the fact that we are taught from a very early age to sit on chairs where as in the east it is more common to squat on the heels.
I have nothing against other arts, if it suits you and you can do it then fine but I won't be running away from home to join the circus.
:woo:

 

What if, what if, we can all say what if, the fact of the matter is, wheather he had the head gear on or not, at this point in time it worked. Dont get me wrong there were also times when he got it wrong and got a dam good whack.

Even the other person in the picture who much prefers the more upright style is also not shy about using the longer and lower stances if the need arises as is the first person when it comes to upright stances. That is my whole point.

Both need to be respected on an equal basis as being just as practical as each other if used in the correct manner.

Again my point exactely, your preferance is the more upright stance and in your opinion and based on your personal expeariance it is more practical for you, that does not mean the opposite can be true for someone else.

As for on GM showing another GM how easily he can be countered using a certain technique, well you see we can all do that, especially if you already know what the other guy is going to do.

Let's say forinstance I tell you you can only use and upright stance with head strikes and I am going to counter it, I am already one step ahead because I have limited you to what you can and what you cant do, but I am free to do whatever I like. Get me.

Like I say, you cannot say something is more practical than something else, because this will depend on numerous things happening for it to become either practical or in practical. Things work for a reason and the reason is that is it the most practical for that given situation at that given time, it does not mean it will be practical next time around in a similar situation, that again will depend on numerous things happening at that time.

Best regards

Pat

 

Thanks Tim, but as you are aware there are many different systems, with a range of names for techniques and within the system that teach, the forward and back swaying motion is called elasiko. I agree that it is not used all of the time, but does allow for minor adjustments to be made while remaining within range.

Regards

Peter

 

Ooops! That's Elastiko, but I am not a keyboard master.

 

Matter of opinion.

And when moving into a cat stance, commonly used in FMA by the way you will find that your foot will be sliding on the floor which if you freeze the frame can look like a back stance, but I got the impression from your post you don't like anykind of fancy stances, back stance would also fall in to this catagory would it not.

A breif flirtation with Balintawak too I believe.

But at no time did you imply that you were refering to other arts, actually from your post you gave the distinct impression that you were only refering to FMA, so perhaps you should make it clear that you have also decided the meaning of someone else's post, so we can all understand where you are coming from.

Because a system or style has adopted a ranking system does not mean they have accomadated the so called western twisted ego and it does not mean that what they show is wrong. I am sure many of the other styles who have adopted either a belt or other rank marking system would feel more than slighted by your comment and not to mention the whole western community that you have just insulted.

I did not say Kung Fu Hand work influenced the the Balintawak hand work, and maybe you asked the wrong question

Absolute twaddle. Individuals are or are not flexible, where they come from or what race they are does not come into it.

So, to do other arts you have to join the circus? Another nice insult but this time to the majority of the worlds MA population.

I think you need to think before you make comment.

Pat

 

Low wide stances

Low, wide stances give you an advantage when doing largo mano espada y daga insofar as the weight shifts back and forth from front to rear legs also turn the hips and waist: this gives speed and power to both hands and allows for a very natural movement.

While it may be true that an upright stance will give you greater mobility I do not find that I have less mobility than I need in a lower, wider stance at largo range. This is because there is plenty of time to make adjustments, given that there is a longer range, and also because the daga tends to keep people from crashing into me.

Ultimately stance is a personal preference and if you favor an upright stance it's not "better" or "worse" than any other stance if you can make it work for you. I have noticed from watching Bobby Tabaoda's Balintawak tapes that even though the stances are narrower and the practioners fight at a closer range, their knees are always bent appropriately...

Best,

Steve Lamade

 

absolutely. i was simply posting to describe that what you describe as the elastiko motion is not the use of the low stance which ritchie was describing.



tim

 

To each his/her own. What works for one doesn't work for another. Some people who find that wide stances don't work for them could say they are fancy , and vice-versa. Just make sure that when you're in either stances, you're not laying on your back unconcuious...... I win

 

And if you can lay on your back unconcious and still defend yourself in either stance I would pay good money to go to the circus to see that


Best regards

Pat

 

:woo:

 

Hi Tim

No worries at all.

I used the word sway to describe moving slightly in, or out of range. Equally, the description could have been weight transfer / rock / project forwards or back etc. The main point concerning the thread issues, is that from a deep stance, it is possible to move in and out of range without having to step or move the feet.

Gumagalang

Peter

 

Still I maintain that staking a head for a leg is not that wise. But if you can make it work..

 

Yeah the blue guy's good. If it was a blade, I think its worst to lose a head than a leg. The red guy can hack that head with a simple double lead. Of course I'm just theorizing.

 

IMO, these "stances" are just transition points to get where you wanna be. I start upright but I can go low anytime as situation dictates.

Agree.

Exactly the point I'm driving at, those who start at low stance are predictable. Upright stancer can easily transition to any stance but I doubt if the same(transitioning from low stance to upright) can be said to those who prefer low stances. Most of them made the low stance their fighting style.

I can only agree.

Regards.

 

If that was me and I feel safe in assuming that it is probably what the guy in the picture would have done too because of his experience.....I would have more than likely struck down from head to foot on the (entry) way in, the leg strike would then of only been a follow up strike due to the position I was now in. I mean, why else would he be currently striking from the floor level.

For example you have commited a downward full force strike with your right hand if you were to then follow with your left at full force (to the head or such like)you will be left with no cover and your only options would be to come back with a left backhand or double handed return strike with both sticks to recentre your position.

So the best thing would actually be once commited to the right handed strike from head to foot, to raise your left hand as a defence for your head while returning to the quickest shortest route for your right hand to strike and return to a centred and guarded position. In this scenario the leg would seem to be the nearest follow up target so would make sense.

You can see the other guy is stepping back as if he has received a blow during some point of this initiated attack.

This is what it looks like to me, so I personally think he has done the right thing for the given situation, you have to bear in mind the photo has been taken in mid flight from one position to the next during a flow of attack and not in a guarded position waiting for a strike.

Lots of love :love:

Lucy

 

In that given situation, a headgear protected match.. I'd say, I'll just whack those legs off again and again. The legs are unprotected so hitting those knee caps would be nice.

cheers.

 

Obviously the photo is great for analysis, but clearly this is an action shot taken during a split-second of the the fight. So what really happened after that shot?

Red ran off crying to his girlfriend and blue left the match to eat Balut!"

Speculation is good, but there are too many "What if's" from viewing a still shot taken during the fight. Blue may be a Shoot fighter and took the guy down follwing that shot.

Gumagalang

Peter

 

Actually, I forgot.....I have the video footage.

I will try to find that exact moment, that specific freezeframe, that exact breath, that exact..... Well I will try.

Perhaps I will find out what the scenario is.

Lots of love :love:

Lucy

 

well said.

 

However, the rules of this bout were the first person to get a clean shot wins the point. Just whacking the legs probably would loose you the bout as it is easy to counter strike the head while someone goes for the legs.

So with this scoring system in mind you will find you protect the head at all costs along with the rest of the body.

The targets are from the toe up so there is alot to consider before you apply your techniques, such as if you are blocked or counter hit at the same time there is no score won. So the techniques have to be clean and effective to gain any points regardless of stance. It is the clean clear shot that counts and the first person to win 5 clean shots wins the round. Easy you may think, but you would be surprised how many people didn't get 5 clean shots in a 2 minute round...so often went to the highest scorer.

If the round ended in a draw, there was a sudden death round, which went on until the first person went scored the first clean clear shot....this on occasion could go on for longer than a normal round as both fighters would be far more careful, not wanting to lose on the sudden death point, so although head gear was worn for health and safety, not many people left there heads open and apart from a groin box, that was the only protection they wore.

The deep stance applied correctly often had a good ability to score and an upright stance applied correctly in the right situation had the same effect. This is the point....a stance applied correctly in the right situation has benefits.

Due to the format of the competition alot of the bouts were fought at middle to long range which is why we did see alot of the longer deeper stances and footwork to great effect and alot of people found it difficult to get into close range due to the footwork and stances and the pain from the lightly padded rattan sticks.

I found I had to change my approach with different fighters, dependant on their individual style of fighting (Not style as in group).

So as this was a reasonable realistic approach to fighting I am not sure how the low stance could be completly iliminated by any body.

Lots of love :love:

Lucy