I think "weaken" is a misnomer, and a lot of sites are misinformed. For several seconds or even minutes following any kind of static stretch, you cannot display your top agility or maximal speed because your muscles are less responsive to stimulation - your coordination is off. Static stretches reduce the force production of the stretched muscles. This was shown by subjecting calf muscles to several 30-second stretches and measuring their force afterward (Rosenbaum and Hennig 1995). Maximal force production is impaired for several minutes after strenuous static stretching (Kokkonen, Nelson, and Cornwell 1998). If you try to make a fast, dynamic movement immediately after a static stretch, you may injure the stretched muscle. I think this is what those sites are trying to explain. Kurz explains this in further detail in Stretching Scientifically. This tense-relax cycle is what Kurz calls "isometric stretching". You use a combination of isometric tensions and relaxed stretches to increase flexibility. It works on two basic principles: 1) overriding the stretch reflex by inducing a post-contractive stretch relfex depression, thereby enabling you to stretch further (your muscles cannot resist to their maximum immediately following an isometric tension), and 2) developing strength in the stretched out position. Generally speaking, the stronger a muscle is, the less it needs to tense to support a given load (like your body weight). In essence, it feels more comfortable in the stretched-out position. Hope this helps. Regards, Dan
Wow, it amazes me how much you know on this topic, it's like an encyclopdia of strectching at our fingertips. You are a true asset to this forum. Just a little tip I have picked up along the way. I have found that breathing out really helps me to relax into a stretch, especially stretches that allow me to use my bodyweight to increase the stretch.
Newy085, thanks man. The breathing you describe is similar to the Contrast Breathing technique outlined in Relax into Stretch by Pavel Tsatsouline. Basic guidelines are as follows: - When leaning forward, exhale when increasing; when leaning back, inhale when increasing - Breath as normal as possible when holding the stretch (some trainers will advise long, deep breaths when holding a stretch; this can increase the tension in your muscles, which is the opposite of what you're trying to achieve) You may want to try this breathing technique to bring about further gains in your stretch: inhale deeply, clench you fists and scrunch up your face, hold it for a second, then exhale and relax your face and hands. You should find your body relaxes more this way. Regards, Dan
Super Foot, what do you think of PNF stretching? I heard and readed that it's the fastest way to gain flexibility. That's also with tensing the muscles etc. Is it the same thing that Kurz does?
The method of PNF stretching for increasing flexibility is as follows: 1. Stretch as far as possible 2. Hold the position (without tensing) for 20 seconds 3. Tense the target muscles 4. Relax and immediately increase the stretch 5. Hold the new position (without tensing) for 20 seconds 6. Repeat to maximum PNF stretching was developed in the mid-20th century as a rehabilitation exercise to help victims of stroke and paralysis, among other ailments. Kurz describes three methods of performing isometric stretches, and PNF is one of them. Pretty much the same thing only with very minor differences (read Stretching Scientifcally for a better explanation from Kurz). Studies by Holt and Travis showed isometric/PNF stretches to be 267% more effective than traditional static/relaxed stretches. Regards, Dan
I was wondering, when we stretch f.e. for the split, we reduce the reflex-muscle thing, but what happens when we try to stretch our Hip joints? I've tried to do this tense-relax thing when stretching the hip joints, but it didn't work so well.
MucKSW, The techniques described above should work for all muscle groups. Remember there are a lot of muscles that make up the hip joint, so you will need to be a bit more specific. Are you able to describe, or even post a photo, of the stretch you are trying to accomplish? Perhaps you alignment and/or posture is wrong.
Well, for example with a butterfly stretch. My knees are high up, im really unflexibel when it come's to that. Picture: http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=butterflykn5.png As you can see, my knees are high up. This is probably why I can't throw proper roundhouse kicks. I know a roundhouse kick is not only about the knee but it's always good to pull your knee up. I can't even keep it on my belly height It's different then a sidesplit stretch. With the sidesplit stretch I always manage to come further and further. With the butterfly stretch the pressure is way more. It kind of feels like I can't go any further that day. It's like im stuck there.
If you were trying to squeeze into that hole in the wall the no wonder your knees are up high! Just kidding Try this routine when doing the butterfly stretch: 1. Sit upright and pull your knees to the floor with the strength of your legs along. When you've pulled them as low to the floor as you can, hold for 10-30 seconds. 2. Keeping your knees where they were in #1, push down on your thighs with your elbows and hold again for a count of 10-30 seconds. 3. Keeping your knees where they were in #2, lean your chest (not your head, or else you will round you back) toward you feet as far as possible and hold for another count of 10-30 seconds. Another way to do this stretch is simply to sit in the position (back straight) and just hold it. Don't pull or push your legs down. Best with your back to a wall. Do it while watching TV. Eventually, when you have waited out the tension, your legs will gradually lower by themselves. Remember - this is a very mild stretch for the adductors. I personally don't do it all that often because there are more effective stretches. Besides, even though it can be good to do basic stretches before your splits, you really only need one stretch per muscle group. I find the front split and side split enough to keep up a relatively high level of (passive) flexibility. Use this as a precursor to your side splits (or other adductor stretches), but don't judge your overall flexibility on one stretch. I know people who can do full splits but are the same as you in the butterfly stretch - I'm one of them! And don't forget that even if you have the ability to put your knees to the floor, or do full splits, you still might not be able to do high roundhouse kicks. Two different types of flexibility so two different types of stretching are required. Also the height of the knees from the floor is the biggest misconception with the butterfly stretch. It is more important to get your heels closer to your groin. You have good adducter flexibility if you can get your heels 5-10 centimeters from your groin. Being able to lower your knees to the floor is a display of flexibility in the iliopsoas group (hip flexors). Regards, Dan
wow, thanks a lot for that. I will try out that routine of yours! And I don't do the butterfly stretch for the sidesplit, just for my hip joints when pulling up the knee, for example when doing roundhouse kick. I asked my instructor why they sucked, and he said I wasn't really able to keep my knees high. I asked him a good stretch to solve this and he said that the butterfly stretch is a good one for this. Which are effectiver then? ---------------------------- This is my actual problem: http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=roundhousejo7.png Ye i want my knee higher up. This is the maximum of my knee coming up. And when i try to throw a nice, slow roundhouse kick, from that position, it actually goes lower. And I tought the butterfly stretch could be a solve for that?
So you wish to increase the height of your knee in the chamber position? Then lift your knee as high as possible as though preparing to kick, place your hand over or under your knee (whichever is easier) and lift your knee up higher. When you've gone as high as you can, hold for 10-30 seconds. You can also do this stretch with a partner.
I will work on that. But now I came up with an other question: When I hold my knee up, in the roundhouse position (like in the last picture), and I kick out really slow, f.e. with kicking with the right, I feel this pain in my right hip joint, somewhere around my right ass ;p Which muscle is that, and what stretch is the best to solve that?
Your problem is more of a strength one than a stretching one. You have three muscles in that area: gluteus maximus, gluteus medius and gluteus minimus. The pain you are feeling is your body telling you that these muscles are not strong enough to support the weight of your leg in the roundhouse position. You should strengthen them using the following exercises: 1. Squats. 2. Deadlifts. 3. Leg raises to the side. Also practice extending your leg out slowly and holding it there for as long as possible.
Thanks a lot, I heard that before, but this is a good confirm! So these exercises are also important for kicks?
Generally speaking three to five sets of six to ten repetitions for squats and deadlifts will suffice. Three to five sets of ten to fifteen repetitions for leg raises to the side. These amounts may differ for other people.
Ok, thanks a lot again, gonna work on that Strength. If I want to do these strength training and stretching to gether, should I first start with the stretching, or first strength training?
Start with strength first, then stretching. Don't do any type of static stretching (relaxed or isometric) before dynamic or strength exercises in your workout. Thomas Kurz explains why in his book Stretching Scientifically which is available from www.stadion.com
