"What the World has Forgotten"

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu Jitsu' started by flashlock, Feb 10, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. cluebird

    cluebird For various reasons --

    Okay, I can tell you're funny now. Great. You would still like to fight from your back on pavement, with half your back on a curb, etc.?

    Okay not knock them out maybe. But if you are anywhere apart from in a field or grassy area, getting your back slammed into something hard isn't fun. It isn't even fun on mats. If they lift you up, they can probably walk your head right into a wall. That's why I wouldn't recommend playing a bottom game when in a fight.

    Yeah you're real cool aren't you, telling people to <<snip>>. Ever watched Pride? Look at Sakuraba stomping the crap out of his downed opponents waiting around in open guard. With boots or shoes, I definitely wouldn't want to wait around there.

    Wait, how are we in disagreement here?

    Exactly. If someone wants to be competent defending and handling strikes, learn a striking art, not grappling... This was to address the OP's post claiming BJJ is all you need to be a complete fighter.

    Exactly. Again we agree. If you want to be a overall fighter, do some striking. If you want to grapple, that's all you have to do, and this is probably sufficient for self defense.

    Let's keep this gentlemanly. Please fellas.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2008
  2. cluebird

    cluebird For various reasons --

    I don't quite understand what you mean by this. And yes I have read the thread, but it does become a bit confusing, especially with Flashlock's changing arguments.
  3. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

    I think thats the first time I saw "gentlemanly" and Kempofist quoted in the same post.

    ;) ;) ;) <3
  4. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Nah ideally I wouldn't want to be there. But being there wouldn't be the end of the world, unless of course I was getting jumped as the lucky receiver of a gang initiation.

    Definitely hurts. Definitely not a fight ender unless you have the pain tolerance of a little girl. Jiu-Jitsu fighters are trained to capitalize on attempted guard slams by hooking the leg and transitioning into a series of submission attempts. Slamming your way out of submission attempts is met by sinking the sub deeper. Unless you are Rampage Jackson, or are fighting someone half your size, trying to slam is not the best idea, especially against a competent Jiu-Jitsu practitioner.

    I call'm how I see'm. Enough silliness in this thread as there is. No need to add to it.

    Sakuraba is a trained and well rounded mixed martial arts fighter. He understands the nuance of ground grappling, hence his ability to exploit it. Thinking you can do that without understanding the risks involved, and how to marginalize them is not the best option.

    Probably not, but I'm still feeling argumentative.

    No. If you want to be competent at learning how to deal with strikes on the ground, get an MMA coach who has experience in dealing with that. Next best option is a grappling (BJJ, Sambo, Judo etc..) instructor who at least understands the fundamentals of the ground, and how to control an opponent who is topside on you. Slipping punches and elbows on the ground is just as much of an art form as it is standing up. Learning a striking art does not help you deal with that.

    Sorry I was born without tact :)
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2008
  5. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    I am a gentleman and a scholar. I increase the property value of this forum with my class alone :)
  6. cluebird

    cluebird For various reasons --

    No don't worry I don't think it would be the end of the fight. But I would rather be on top personally. Just my opinion.

    No I'm sure you're right. Again, I just wouldn't want to take the risk. There really isn't a great chance of meeting Rampage Jackson on the street, and him wanting to fight you. I hope.

    It's a two way street here.

    Believe me I know. But just picture lying on your back on the ground while someone's fighting you. I just don't like the idea.


    No, no. I don't mean striking on the ground. I mean in general.
  7. Banpen Fugyo

    Banpen Fugyo 10000 Changes No Surprise

  8. Atharel

    Atharel Errant


    Do you know about the BJJ "positional hierarchy"? Do you know that the mount is near the top and the guard is much below it?

    And guess what? As BJJ has more options when put on your back than "try to spin to turtle", the BJJ guy is more likely to get out of being on his back than the average Judo guy. Funny, eh?

    What the bjorgin are you thinking?

    and even if you do run into Rampage you can always just let go of the guard or submission that is allowing you to be picked up - madness I know!

    BJJ is not about CHOOSING to fight from your back. You prefer to be on top, mounted, side control, wherever. Just because a BJJer *also* can fight from his back doesn't mean you have to resent that fact so hard.
  9. EternalRage

    EternalRage Valued Member

    i wish the world would forget about this thread
  10. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    You and Mikey comin' to the Throwdown?
  11. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    sorry, I am on painkillers due to a rib injury, so that made little sense.

    None of us EXCEPT FL are advocating that BJJ in and of itself is a complete system. We know it has flaws and holes.
  12. adouglasmhor

    adouglasmhor Not an Objectivist

    Sorry about your rib injury man, been there and it sucks. Seems to take forever tosort itself too.
  13. flashlock

    flashlock Banned Banned

    So if a system has a flaw, it's incomplete? That doesn't make sense. I don't define "complete" as "perfect". I define complete as having practical answers to all fighting ranges, an over-arching strategy, and being open to incorporate new techniques and evolve.


    BJJ: Complete
    1. Striking - answers striking by closing the distance to render opponent's strikes ineffective.
    2. Clinch - uses pummeling and basic throws/ takedowns from clinch
    3. Ground - specializes in this range
    4. Over arching strategy - close, reach a dominant position, submit
    5. Open to evolution: blackbelts can hardly keep up year to year with new techniques.

    JKD (PFS): Complete
    1. Striking - Filipino kicking, western boxing, wing chun
    2. Clinch - specializes here, controlling head, knees, headbutts elbows, takedowns
    3. Ground - Very basic stripped down BJJ with biting
    4. Over arching strategy - Straight blast to clinch range, deliver elbows, knees and elbows, be prepared for other ranges.
    5. Open to evolution: whole point of JKD.

    TKD: Incomplete
    1. Striking: specializes here, emphasis on kicking
    2. Clinch: no clinch
    3: ground: no ground
    4: over arching strategy - multiple fast kicks with little power, great for the sport, unapplicable for self defense
    5. Open to evolution: tends to resist evolution to uphold tradtion
  14. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    y'know what... joining Eternal Rage and just forgetting about this thread. It's more painful than my bruised rib.
  15. Baichi

    Baichi Valued Member

    Wow, some serious agenda-driven stuff here!
  16. EternalRage

    EternalRage Valued Member

    I will be out of town visiting fam, but if I wasn't, our school's having a seminar that day so I'd have probably been going to that.
  17. EternalRage

    EternalRage Valued Member

    that sucks.

    I've torn cartilage on either side, it is a b*tch to breathe. or laugh. or move.
  18. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    I hear you. And of course, any tummy cramp from overeating or stress gets you panicked, wondering if your spleen or something went. I hate being injured.
  19. fanatical

    fanatical Cool crow

    summary of thread :

    Flashlock : My instructor is awesome

    Cluebird: I'm clueless lol. get it? Cluebird/clueless? nobody? .. oh well..

    The rest: Noise.

    This thread brought to you by Xyience.
  20. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Heh...you realise that you're in "The rest" category right?
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page