"What the World has Forgotten"

Discussion in 'Brazilian Jiu Jitsu' started by flashlock, Feb 10, 2008.

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  1. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

    Flash if you can change your arguments into the usual 'TMA mean streets' arguments by just changing the name of the art it isn't an analogy it's showing that your argument is essentially the exact same. You are making many of the same points of those you criticise.
     
  2. sudo02

    sudo02 Valued Member

    Flashlock. real self defence is about not being their in the first place, you need to read the 3 second fighter the sniper option (clues in the title) by geoff thompson, he has over 10 years on the doors in the UK he says he has had over 300 hundred fights and most importantly seen 1000's. he says if you could only train one fighting style he would pick boxing.

    Q. why do you think this is?

    A. because the vast majority of fights happen when in conversation range, you will always be in converstaion range if your in code yellow(again read his book).

    here is an example how a fight may take place.

    the eye contact challenger, this is the man who is looking for a fight, the first person to hold eye contact with him will become his victim, his aggression is usally displaced but, never the less, tangibly ferocious.

    these are his ritualistic steps:

    1. eye cotact. you may catch the eye of someone acreoss a crowded room or a street, the look lingers.

    2. the question. who are you looking at? want a fking picture?

    3.the approach. a physical approach follows.

    4. question reiteration. i said do you want a FKING picture the question is repeated, with added vehemence.

    6. actual challenge. do you wanna GO then?

    5. single syllable challenge. often the assailant may attack at 'actual challenge' if he doesnt, and as a precurser to violence, he will often drop in to single syllables that act as a subliminal action triggers to his attack.

    that being said, if you can spot the signs early then you can lay them out with a premtive strike (the sniper option) thus ending the fight before it has begun so to speak. to be able to do this requres knowledge of boxing, how to use your feet and hips to produce power to cause a knockout. the vast majority of people without good solid training in boxing cannot punch to save their life and you could add BJJ guys into that catorgory as well.

    Flashlock nobody is saying BJJ is useless in self defence its just part of the system, i train and love BJJ/Submission fighting/MMA i even teach begginers.
    but i would never go into a clinch & take the person down on purpose in certain areas i.e pubs clubs etc. however i may take down someone where i work due to haveing backup other staff etc.

    i dont believe you have been in real serious fights have you, my last altercation was in a pub with my wife (as you do) when 2 chavs came walking in to meet up with their 2 other mates, to cut along story short one of them ended up giving my wife some **** etc, when i asked him poiltly to finish his drink he told me he could not do that and a physical approach followed (due to pub layout) i stood up adopted the fence (again read his book) and told him that i didnt want any trouble we then had a converstation which during the time i was talking i was thinking should i knock him out with one punch which by the way i WOULD HAVE. at no stage did i think i will take you down and choke you out. why because his three mates had joined him, my intentions were to KO him and go sick on the next person who came my way, anyway i managed to talk him down and all parties left without a stay in A&E.

    sorry to go on but want to point you in the right direction, flashlock you sound like you have a ton of enthusiasim. or as geoff thompson puts it your hacking away in the jungle, just the wrong jungle.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2008
  3. callsignfuzzy

    callsignfuzzy Is not a number!

    Great post by sudo02, saves me from citing Thompson myself.

    Anyway, flashy, I'd like to hear your responses to these claims:

    1) Having solid standup gives you the option of ending a fight instantly with a pre-emptive, accurate power punch

    2) In the event you're unable to get the fight to the ground, you've got to deal with your attacker somehow, and striking's the best option you have of causing damage and finishing the fight

    3) Training in striking increases your defensive toolbox when it comes to punches and kicks, so instead of "closing the distance and probably getting punched in the face", you now have the option to cover, slip, catch, duck, etc. against a punch... in other words, to not get hit

    4) "Take a BJJ black belt, punch him in the face once, he's a brown belt; punch him in the face twice, he's a purple belt"-Carlson Gracie quoted by Joe Rogan. Training in striking on a consistant basis gets one used to the impact of a punch, which is a necessary evil in a fight

    5) Striking gives you a better chance at dealing with multiple attackers, as shown by [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWTZwKBBoQc]this[/ame] and [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKdZgeesw68]this[/ame]; at the very least I'd like to hear how your "fake a strike-close the distance-initiate the clinch-takedown-possitonal dominance-work for a sub" strategy would deal with those situations.

    I'd also appreciate it if you could respond to some of the points I made on post #'s 155 and 111. And yes, I know that second one was super-long, but I cared enough to write it, and I'd consider it curtious for you to pick a handful of things out of it to respond to.

    I'd like to point out, too, that just about all of your critics on this issue train BJJ, grappling and groundfighting. Nobody yet has advocated NOT learning BJJ. In fact, nearly all have stated that it's an important part of self-defense training. What we're arguing against is the assertion that BJJ is the only thing you need, by itself and unchanged.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2008
  4. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Last two posts
    [​IMG]

    About time we got into the meat and potatoes as to why this argument has gotten so dumb.
     
  5. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member

    Clinch + knife = death...
     
  6. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    You're using a "sport fighters" mentality of what "clinching" is. With me Clinch + Knife = Your death :)
     
  7. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    As someone previously said, the ground is the last place you want to find yourself on in a streetfight, going there by choice is just plain idiotic. Even the most cowardly of friends would be happy to start kicking you in the head once you're lying down.
     
  8. Sgt_Major

    Sgt_Major Ex Global Mod Supporter

    QFT coming from someone who spent 3months in a coma after being kicked almost to death on the ground.
     
  9. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member

    Not unless you define clinching as closing in, pinning the weapon and pummeling. Regardless, that would be a funky definition of clinching; and besides you are a sports fighter, what am I supposed to assume you mean.
     
  10. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    No way jose. Clinch + knife = good juju.

    Think about it.
     
  11. MacWombat

    MacWombat Valued Member

    Get those felt knives from Fight Quest.
     
  12. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x


    Pack mentality of the male, together with looking after your mates.

    Seen it, done it. A friend's a friend at the end of the day.
     
  13. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    I look to close the distance, by deflecting your forearm inward with the back of my forearm, and then immediately swivel my wrist around to clinch your wrist AND the handle of the blade with two hands. From there, if I can actually get a wristlock, I'll attempt to twist the knife outwards and then stab you with it while you're still holding it. If not that, I'll try to again break your grip and balance by stepping outwards away from you to draw you off-balance, and then pop an elbow into your face. Hopefully from there I can break the knife from your grip. Once you don't have your blade, prepare to take a nap :)
     
  14. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member


    Well, I was agreeing with you for the first half of the technique...
     
  15. Devil Hanzo

    Devil Hanzo Doesn't tap to heel-hooks

    And what would you do? Monkey Steals the Peach?
     
  16. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    AS kempo says deflect the knife to the inside (as you get off the line of attack) However I would prefare to enter deeply strike the throat with the elbow while controling the knife hand, From the position in the photo I can apply a strangle to put pressure on the neck and spine and "jar" the elbow with my knee when he goes off balance.

    I still prefare another Scotsman's "technique" If he brings a knife you bring a gun.

    regards koyo
     

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  17. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    ahhh the other Scotsman's technique... aside from meting out the Glasgow smile. :D
     
  18. Shen Yin

    Shen Yin Sanda/Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    Hoy (good post), can I use your sig as well? Or do I gotta start crossfacing again? LOL

    Ironically, this is the same man who choked out Royce using straight BJJ himself. But, this guy flash--whatever pulled his own punk card once he said that he's a newbie w/ only 8 months training. At least now it explains why he's such a zealot.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2008
  19. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Whoops, I said I'd twist the wrist and knife "outwards", I meant "inwards" as that would be more productive in terms of helping me put the pointy end into my assailant. I assume you agree with it all now, I can see where there was the misunderstanding :)
     
  20. SifuJason

    SifuJason Valued Member

    I was more disagreeing with the whole approach after you had the arm pinned.
     
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