What style of silat do you practice?

Discussion in 'Silat' started by Crucible, Aug 8, 2004.

  1. Kiai Carita

    Kiai Carita Banned Banned

    Salam Mas Krisno,

    Why do you want to move with a full reservoir of power? Should not one be kosong-isi (empty-full) according to the circumstance? In my understanding power is weak and emptiness has unlimited potential.

    Warm salams to all,
  2. Steve Perry

    Steve Perry Valued Member

    Lost Me

    Yeah, I am having some trouble taking your meaning. I understand that there is alway something more to be learned, but certainly there *are* levels of achievement along the way. And when you have one, but not the next one, then by my definition, you are between the two ...

    As to your philosophy of moment, it sounds as if you are saying that there is only one right way to move, and while I believe that in a given set of circumstances there will be one peak-efficiency motion, in a real-world situation, that moment is apt to shift so quickly that what was the most-effective move a quarter-second past is no longer the right one.

    The tool you want might not be at hand --all kinds of reasons why -- and you'll have to use the tool you have.

    While you might be able to postulate that move A is the most efficient use of all the factors -- gravity, mechanics, muscle power, speed, etc -- and that moves B,C, or XYZ would be therefore be less efficient, I think the fluidity of a real-time fight is such that being able to pull that theoretical move out and apply it exactly when and where it is needed is hardly a given. You have to see what is coming, realize what is needed, and do it faster than the speed of conscious thought or you'll be too slow too pull it off.

    Sometimes there is more than a bit of a gap between the theory and the practice.

    Nor is it necessary to always *use* the best move. Something that is, say 2% less efficient, or 20% less, might be enough to do the job in most cases. Given the choice, I'd drive nails with a hammer, but in an emergency, I can do it with a big rock. Somebody who comes along later probably won't be able to tell the difference ...

    In a perfect world, sure, you'd have what you need right there. Of course, in a perfect world, you'd never have need for a fighting tool -- nobody would ever attack you ...
  3. ptkali778

    ptkali778 Valued Member

    in our club we practice jati wisesa silat and mande muda
  4. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    It appears that you are alluding to a sequence of actions ... like the most appropriate jurus for example. My apologies then because when using the word "move" I meant along the lines of :

    ... and don't forget position. This is exactly what I mean.

    The body requirements are to be dynamically relaxed and to sink into the earth, the mind requirements are to be calm and focused wening, and the tactical requirements are to feel and follow the opponent roso, not resisting but redirecting and neutralising or alternatively amplifying an attack. It is impossible to do this if one is tense as well as being intent on their own construct (stuck on style), exclusive to that which is being presented by the situation.

    Aquiring the body-knowledge to align to these requirements is the function of style which contains the syllabus of method.

    My argument is that once embodied, the primacy of style is not as critical. One can then analyse other styles for their technical/tactical solutions to specific scenarios without the tunnel vision that so often accompanies discussion on style.

    There is a gateway to the stage of body knowledge where this can all begin to coalesce. That gateway to a plateau (as you accurately described) is a level of psycho-physical achievement. However that is a threshold which has to be crossed before we can realise effective body-knowledge. This is also the portal for Gerak Nurani.

    Last edited: Jan 27, 2007
  5. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    Concept of "kosong" & "isi"

    Salam Bram,
    A full reservoir of power comes from kosong. Nek wis isi (when already full), it is no longer a reservoir or potential power, but the actuality or the expression of power.

    Power is an over-arching description that encompasses the states of kosong and isi. The release of optimal energy is possible when the relationship between kosong and isi is realised. The relationship involves the vertical harmonising (push against and sinking into) with gravity as well.
    Weakness is when the factors of the relationship are not understood and a person relies on sectional power or truncated power i.e the power of the arm alone or leg etc.

    In Silat Seng I, Patkwa and Taici they allude to it as whole body power or connected power. Watching the video of Cingrik Goning it appears they follow similar principles. Lelaku follows these principles.


    P.S. Do not confuse isi with muscular tension/force. The muscular-skeletal structure is a construct of dynamic relationships of balance not of force, to facilitate unobstructed connectivity. Dynamic tension/relaxation erquires no more than the srtuctural relationship to gravity.

    Imagine a fire hose threaded thru a structure ... if screwed up and convoluted it is "tense" and water (energy) is unable to flow through. Energy takes the path of least resistence to its flow, so keep the hose rounded. When the energy is flowing through unimpeded ... that is isi. Better still, when you visit me, I will show you.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2007
  6. pengolahanjunki

    pengolahanjunki New Member

    I am a Balik 1 level Merpati Putih practitioner...
  7. bayu segara

    bayu segara New Member

    We are the same pengolahanjuki. I am balik 1 level too in merpati putih. Actually I should be kombinasi 1 but I was bussy with the job and family. Where do you stay now? I am glad, I have 'saudara seperguruan' in this forum. Keep practice bro..... :cool:
  8. pengolahanjunki

    pengolahanjunki New Member

    Myself as well...if I had truly applied myself and focused as much as I intended to I would be Kombinasi level. Sometimes life has a way of undermining your best efforts..... aside from power suddenly getting MUCH harder at Balik level. I was under the impression that the kolat I attend is the only MP school in the US. We are in Utah. Where are you? Yes, good to have a brother....
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2007
  9. bayu segara

    bayu segara New Member

    I am in Jakarta. How many students in Utah?
  10. pengolahanjunki

    pengolahanjunki New Member

    Sorry, I guess I was being a bit narrow minded and I assumed you were in the US or maybe the Netherlands. I THINK there are 40 or so active members Dasar 2 and above. The Dasar 1's train seperately, and most don't make it to Dasar 2 for pretty obvious reasons. My Mas' were just over there testing for Khusus 1 along with a group of senior students that are between Balik 2 and Kombinasi 1. I would love to train in Indonesia. I imagine Mas Nate and Mas Mike are a bit softer on us in training than it would be over there. It is still a challenge, but it would be interesting to see if anything is "lost in translation" as far as training methods, points of movement, getaran and meditation go. Do you guys do pembinaan every day? What pembinaan exercises do you do (garuda, listric, bollock(sp)-balik,etc)? Other types of power besides pengolahan? Lidi? Im not trying to test you, I'm a sponge and very interested...good to know you, my friend..
  11. bayu segara

    bayu segara New Member

    Oh yeah, my friends saw your mas in jogja too. Unfortunately I couldn't go there. Do pembinaan every day? I don't do it every day my friend, it depend on my practice. If I practice every day, so I do pembinaan every day. But my mas suggest us to do pembinaan every day when the weather exchange. We call it 'musim pancaroba'. You can get sick easly, so you must do pembinaan to protect your body.
    Usually we do pembinaan twice in one time. First 'garuda', 'dorong tarik', 'dorong tarik kombinasi' and 'listrik'. Second 'listrik', 'dorong tarik kombinasi', 'dorong tarik' and 'garuda'. But in the second time we use 'nafas kering'. For getaran, my mas teach us some shapes of 'garuda', 'dorong tarik and dorong tarik kombinasi'. To increase our power, we do pengolahan with 'beban'.
    Lidi? hmm, yeah I know this. Btw my mas taught us tunggal baku. Do you know it? It's IPSI regular movement. It consist of 50 'jurus tangan kosong', 25 'jurus golok' and 25 'jurus toya'. Usually I apply this 'jurus' for my 'kembangan'.
  12. nathanwc

    nathanwc New Member

    I am a very new student of Maha Guru Pak Victor de Thouars at the VDT Academy.
  13. pengolahanjunki

    pengolahanjunki New Member

    Yes, I find that doing a couple sets of good hard pembinaan when I start to feel sick will keep me from actually getting sick. It just goes away. Our normal pembinaan is garuda,dorong tarik,kombinasi,listric. We take small rest and a couple breaths between each. Also "penyaluran" if we are breaking. Then sagitiga and pembursi 1 and 2. We also have what we call "bolok balik" which is garuda, dorong tarik, kombinasi, listric, listric, kombinasi, dorong tarik, garuda. We do this on only one breath. Is this "nafas kering? Mas' say it is good for getaran. I don't know what "beban" is. We use flower pots full of cement in pengolahan. Lidi is a bunch of bamboo in a bundle. We twist it for forearm strenght. Then in Balik 2 we use weighted lidi in pengolahan. The only breathing I know for pengolahan is dada and perut. I have not heard of "tunggal baku". I have a few jurus, nothing with the goloks yet. Sorry for all the questions. My Mas grew up doing karate and sometimes I wonder if some of that finds its way into the MP he teaches. I love MP, it has changed my life. I want to make sure he is teaching what he has been taught correctly. He has had personal lessons with Mas Poeng. Crazy, eh? We tried to get Mas Hariyadi over here to teach us, but it is hard to get a visa for someone from a mostly Muslim country now. I want to go to Jogja for a month each year to train, but I don't really know how to make it happen. I guess I better learn to speak Indonesian first, hehe. Happy training, my friend.
  14. ptkali778

    ptkali778 Valued Member

    wow this pembinaan exercise sounds great. care to share. dont wana get sick too :)
  15. bayu segara

    bayu segara New Member

    Ooh lidi is bamboo. I see that, here we call it bamboo not lidi. Lidi is more tiny than bamboo. Yeah we also use lidi to prepare if we want to break a target. Usually one or two months before. I correct your word yaa, it's pembinaan bolak-balik not bolok-balik. 'Nafas kering' means when you do pembinaan in second time, no oxygent at all in your body. Usually before do pembinaan we exhale the oxygen and then inhale the oxygen. After that we do pembinaan, right? In nafas kering we just exhale the oxygen and then do pembinaan. That's nafas kering.
    Woow, how lucky your mas could learn from mas poeng personally. Actually tunggal baku doesn't come from MP, but it's better if MP practioners know tunggal baku. Why do you love MP? Could you tell me how you knew MP and then decided to join MP?
    Yea it's very helpful if you know bahasa Indonesia. Btw if you want to go Indonesia, don't forget to stop by to Jakarta. You can stay in my house. And we can practice or discuss about MP.
  16. pengolahanjunki

    pengolahanjunki New Member

    Yes, little bamboo. Those are great. My forearms are ripped from that alone.
    Wow, nafas kering sounds intense. So no breath in or out for all of bolak balik, or from the second listric back down to garuda? Either way, that's a burn you can feel.....My Mas' Mas is actually Mas Heru. He is a doctor, but also was a special forces MP instructor in Indonesia. Mas Nate and Mas Mike have been to Indonesia twice now, and they met with him, went blindfolded driving,went to the blind school. Their tests were insane, from what I hear. Up for days,no food,very little water. They had to run 30 miles barefoot up a jungle covered mountain while people waited to ambush them and they had to defend their sabuks. Even the students that went over got a REAL pembajahan. Worked so hard they strated hallucinating.... just stuff I've heard from friends who went. I guess they are trying to get western scientific documentation of vibravision so they can get a grant to open a blind school here...cool.....

    I love MP because of how it has improved every facet of my being and life. More TENAGA, more focus, more resolve, more self-discipline, more peace, more insight, more intuition, more love, more health, more crazy skills....I never thought before MP than I would break multiple pieces of steel with almost no muscular effort...or see three pipas broken with two fingers...see people doing vibravision... I have been healed and am learning to heal myself. My Dasar 2 test I sparred with a very skilled Balik 3 who never physically hit me hard, not once. But almost every hit he landed took me to my knees and made me dry heave, even hits in the ARM. Then Mas would come, wiggle his hand and pull it out. Then I would be fine, at least until he hit me again. I love MP for showing me the sheer size of my own potential, and helping me forge the will to fulfill it. Jedi shiieet, man......

    I ownder where I can go to learn it....oh well, its at least a year away, but I'd like to hang out if and when I make it...thanks for the invite


    It would be extremly difficult to describe. It needs to be shown. Plus, before I was given they breathing keys, I had to build my channels up to take the stress. I used to get insane headaches....basically, it is a set of moving full body isometric poses/exercises combined with breathing techniques designed to dramtically increase internal pressure. They light you up pretty good...
  17. Rebo Paing

    Rebo Paing Pigs and fishes ...

    Lidi is the spine of a coconut leaf, the individual spines of the leaves on the frond.
    In Java brooms for the yard are often made from a bunch of lidi tied together. Jenenge sapu-lidi.

    Hehe ... Bayu Segara is a Javanese name ... the wind of the sea. Cool name :D .

  18. ptkali778

    ptkali778 Valued Member

    thank you! it sounds very interesting
  19. bayu segara

    bayu segara New Member

    xi xi xi : :D sampean benar sekali kembang alas. Nama kulo is angin laut.
    Nafas kering = no oxygen in our body. When you do pembinaan for the example garuda, and then you do without oxygen in your body. That's pembinaan with nafas kering.
  20. ptkali778

    ptkali778 Valued Member

    Is it like parnafasan where you breath in, hold it and then execute a few movements, then breathing out after?

Share This Page