What makes your TMA "Traditional"

I really don’t think time actively plays a part in determine an art being traditional. Too me its the approach of the art. Someone could tomorrow start a new art, with similar beliefs to Karate or Aikido and to me that would make it ‘traditional’.

I refer to uniforms, philosophy, history, traditions, and culture in the conventional sense of say Tae Kwon Do, Karate, Aikido etc, which dosent apply to MMA. While they do certainly have their 'modern' philosophies, the history is from the individual arts, but it doesn’t seem to be used at all as part of there training? Plus, I really don’t see a t-shirt and joggers as a uniform.


Who's responsible for adapting techniques?

Well there’s no excuse for the student to not adapt them, and train them if the teacher doesn’t.

 

Martial arts cant have changed much i mean there is only so many ways a body can be used as a weapon and surely our bodies havent changed. I dont train in a uniform i use normalish clothes and lately trainers (because my sifu likes to stress that when you step into someone step on their feet). There are many kicks but only a few of them are actually worth doing in a fight, my sifu says that Northern kung fustylists are famed for their legs and southern kung fu their hands, what happens if the northern guy kicks at the southern guy who then pulls a butterfly knives from his legs . Also most southern styles stress that a kick doesnt need to be higher then the waist. I have seen side kicks and if you think about it if your side kick is that high whats in the middle *ouch*. (sorry about my grammer it sucks)

 

I think that Joe publics image of a traditional MA involves, eastern based MA's with dobok's, belts and bowing and some amazing power you have if you are a black belt.

My own thought is that all martial arts are traditional. What can be more traditional than trying to bash someones head in. We have been doing it for thousands of years and all arts around today are adaptations of something that existed yesterday.

 

I do whats classed as TMA.

but the techniques have changed over the centuries, it's not stood still (which seems to be the assumption about all TMA)

I'd agree with whats mentioned earlier about what tradition is.
the basic principles and attitude to training (including etiquette) is traditional despite the techniques changing.

But am I confused as to what I am now classed as? Because I do northern and southern kung fu/internal and external arts/striking, grappling, takedowns, jointlocks? and it's all in one class, but it's classed as Shaolin kungfu? is Shaolin kungfu now classed as mixedMA?

 

So what beliefs make Karate and Aikido traditional?

The decision to wear t-shirt and joggers on a regular basis makes it a unform. If you showed up to class in something else, I'm sure that it would be indicated that you are not dressed correctly for training. And how does a traditional martial art implement it's philosophies as part of a class? Or where does a MMA not do that?

My point though was if the teacher isn't teaching correct application, is it fair to say that the MA is teaching self defense? But that's an issue for another thread.

Then we get to:

Both are often quoted statements (and ones that I use from time to time)... however:

Is correct too. Without pulling the Bruce Lee card, let me present this is a different way: If a punch is a punch, and a kick is a kick, if you were to teach Karate using boxing hands, would it still be Karate? And if not doesn't that mean that a punch isn't a punch and a kick isn't a kick? And what does that say about evolution?

Can things only change so much before they need to completely tranform or die?

Now there's an interesting question...

How about:

I'd say that art has established a tradition, but is it "Traditional"? (BTW this was a solid, solid thought!)

- Matt

 

Honestly, I think "traditional" is just a mental shortcut to describe the arts that constituted the status quo when we first learned what martial arts were.

When I think about traditional martial arts, I'm thinking about the cultural trappings of a select few arts. The ones I was exposed to early on. So in some sense, it is a time factor. But not time of the art. Just time of our conception of the arts.

People have described judo here as traditional. But it's a relatively young art. Same with taekwondo. By comparision, muay thai is an old art. And yet, you can do a search for threads here on MAP and see how few people regard muay thai as being traditional.

When I first learned about martial arts, I learned them in a very culturally specific context. Chinese, Japanese, and Korean trappings. Later on, I learned about arnis, bando, muay thai, silat, and endless others. They weren't younger or less steeped in tradition. They were just newer to my consciousness.

I think that's what "traditional" is. Our first conceptions of what martial arts meant.


Stuart

 

Very good points Stuart. Very good points everyone btw. Please keep the cinversation coming!

- Matt

 

Cheers Matt.