We disagree a bit. I think it's easier to get into clinch range (and thus to the ground) than it is to hit someone attempting to get into clinch range. You can hit a person with a solid strike and their momentum still get them into clinch range if that's their aim. I think that's just a fact of human on human combat in some ways.
Kazushi Sakuraba = "The Gracie Hunter" judoka Masahiko Kimura= Beat Helio Gracie I don't think the gracies are doing anything the japanese have not done say in the last 1000 years you go read a book on japanese ancient martial arts and japan has done it to death it's a sit on the floor culture alot of japanese fighting skills were taught at that level. kicking from seating, punching from seating, drawing a sword, wrestling from seating, fighting, etc Go read about the history of the kodokan and you will find kano compiled all what he deemed to be not that nasty stuff from jujitsu styles and made judo. Bjj came from judo and basically is judo it came from Mitsuyo Maeda who was a judoka sent by Kano Jigoro to brazil. ''The first time judo was seen in the Olympic Games was in an informal demonstration hosted by Kano at the 1932 Games.[51] However, Kano was ambivalent about Judo's potential inclusion as an Olympic sport'' MMA fighting in a octagon is a controlled situation it's not real
Actually, the type of thing that the Gracies do really isn't very similar to many Japanese systems, particularly looking back over history. It really is a far more modern thing, and suwari gata and ne waza are actually pretty different (seated techniques and ground techniques). I'm very familiar with the history of Japanese combative methods, Kodokan Judo, Jujutsu Ryu-ha, which went into Kano-ha Jujutsu/Kodokan Judo, what occurred in Brazil, and so on...
what form of ninja do you study my mums Australian I have duel nationality just thought I would say I lived there for 5 years
Follow the link in my signature, but in short, we were the original Bujinkan schools in Australia, New Zealand, and Papua New Guinea until we split from the Bujinkan in 2001. Since then we have operated as an independent organisation.
I have a friend in the Bujinkan he lived in Japan for 6 years why did the organisation split from the bujinkan.
Define "real" For example, They are Really fighting If that kick connects they will really get knocked out. If the tap out wasnt respected the strangle hold would really kill him. Both fighters are reall proficient.
That I'm not getting into publicly, nor is it relevant to the thread. Feel free to PM me if you're interested, but open discussion tends to open a can of worms that are all history for us these days.
Sorry for te random question but how do You defend against a shot personally? I never been able to run away from one. Your a better grappler than me if you can run back from a wrestlers shoot.
Standard defence is a sprawl... personally, I add another couple of little touches, but that's the way we do things.
That's very easy in this case I would define real as in no rules at all, any fighting with rules is not real fighting because in real life there are no rules.
I'd disagree with this. To me, the reasons that competition, even multi-ranged or multi-skilled ones like MMA aren't the same as "real" are to do with the context, the environment, the time line, the adrenaline (type and intensity), and the expectations or lack of. When it comes down to it, MMA is real fighting. They are really hitting each other. That's pretty damn real. What it isn't is a realistic analogue of self defence situations or skills... but it's not meant to be.
totally disagree any fight governed by rules is not real yes they are really hitting each other that's not what i'm on about. MMA is fighting you are really getting hit but thats the only real aspect you can take from it and even that is governed by rules where you can and can't hit is what I am trying to say saying. Sorry i should have worded the thread better ''What makes jujitsu effective in a real life confrontation'' no biting no eye gouging. win by ko, or submission. You get a bottle smashed over your head or someone has a go at you with a knife i'm not on about being in a ring in controlled situation i'm on about what makes jujitsu effective in the real world forget fighting in a ring. What is real -Fighting when you have had a drink -Fighting with weapons somebody attacking you with a knife -Legal consequences of fighting to protect your property -PTSD -Vomit, crap, ****. broken glass thats real -Seeing your attackers again round town what do you do ? -Fighting more than one person -Talking down a fight to avoid confrontation -Being raped -Getting Mugged -82 year Pensioners getting beaten up for £20
You block a bottle exactly the same as an over-hand right/left. One of the greatest concept that MMA carries over to SD is "control the range". Even if weapons are involved. Example: "That guy is about to hit me with a stick. I should stay at striking distance where he can hit me." -Said no MMA fighter ever. Obviously, in a grappling scenario, this renders the stick pretty much useless. MMA fighters control range like no RBSD school can teach during conflict. If the guy with the stick has friends, then you run, because you're not beating three of them. If he doesn't, it's just a stick, you might take a shot to close distance, but once you're there, it's his arms getting broken. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=befAdriVcQU"]armbar in street fight - YouTube[/ame] This fight is pretty much what I imagine when I think street fight. Loads of people watching, but nobody jumping in. Even the fighters friends.
So you would sprawl, I would sprawl And people with good grappling knowledge would sprawl so "backing up" from a shot would still End in a takedown right? So it doesn't matter if he couldn't back up. It's also harder to shoot on a surface too soft to generate kicking power. All points are moot. UFC exposed a gap in training with grappling. Striking became too much of a focus before and now grappling has made (too much) a c comeback.
I disagree. The stick has six sides (ask Rick Young). It is not just the last few inches of the stick that does the striking. The punio (butt end of an eskrima stick) is just as good a weapon at close range, you only have to watch a Dog brothers video to see it in action. The stick does not become redundant at close range. It may just be that the striking section of the stick changes.
Well, we'll chalk that up to a difference in experience between us, then. There are rules in play in "real life" encounters, by the way, from implied cultural and social rules, to laws. Who follows them can vastly affect how the encounter goes... or if there is one at all. There, I'd suggest that it's more important to get an instructor who understands the reality, as it's not the system (the techniques) that is the important part there. Sorry, are you just covering the rules from early UFC again? I don't quite get the relevance. The instructor, if they have enough education. And that isn't always something that is obvious... many instructors seem to think they have an understanding, but actually don't, or contradict it without realizing it. My time in BJJ was very much the latter... so while the guys I trained with were great at BJJ, I really wouldn't suggest them for an understanding of self defence. Honestly, these are just potential scenarios, rather than really getting to training for real defence. Sure, these aspects can, and in many cases, should be part of a real self defence program, but really you seem to be focusing on the fear, rather than looking at what should be seen. But if you're interested purely in self defence, look to RBSD groups, training the way that JWT does (look for his clips and threads on this forum). I will say that training in something like BJJ will give you a very solid mechanical and technical base and skill set, far more than RBSD training will, but RBSD is geared up to understand the realities of modern street violence in a way that no martial art is.
I just watched that fight to day ken grabs him right on the kick, the kick probably initiated kens attack, you can't sprawl in the middle of a kick (if pat smith would have even tried to which I doubt), his lack of grappling knowledge played into the hands of the grapplers not the mat surface.
