What makes good a martial artist?

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by Smokemare, Mar 19, 2010.

  1. Smokemare

    Smokemare ITF TKD 2nd Dan

    I was having a debate with a 6th Dan the other day about the important factors when training in martial arts.

    The conclusion we came to is that:-

    The student is more important than the instructor, the instructor is more important than the organisation and the organisation is more important than the art.

    However each of these things is an important factor in it's own right. I do think it's true that someone who trains hard, thinks about what they do analyses it's effectiveness - but trains at a lame McDojo is a better martial artist than the person who just turns up, goes through the motions and goes home - never thinking about what they are doing or questioning it's effectiveness or putting any real effort in.

    The rest of the conclusion really suggests - that if you want to train and you move area, you should probably look at all arts, and meet several instructors - then train with the instructor you think is best regardless of art or organisation. Even if it means starting again - I think it's probably better for you.

    In some ways talk like this might be seen to be a bit controversial, I'm not really supporting TKD in saying its the best art, but at the same time I'm not saying it's a bad art - I'm saying there are more important factors to consider than the art. I suppose within an organisation, if it's a good one the instrctors should all be to a certain standard. You should probably check out the local branch of your previous organisation first. But you shouldn't decide to train there simply on that basis.

    Back in the TAGB, a common question asked to Black Belts of the time was what might a 6th tenet be? A typical answer was 'loyalty' but I don't agree with this. I can see why it was promoted at the time - but I don't think you should be loyal in the way that it suggests. You should probably be loyal to your instructor - if they are a good one, but if they are not then no you shouldn't.

    I suppose loyalty, like respect has to be earned, rather than demanded.

    Just a few thoughts there.
     
  2. paddy ska

    paddy ska Valued Member

    I can't see how the organization is more important than the Art????

    i left my last organisation (which i loved being in) because were we were based, we weren't being taught the actual Art properly....
     
  3. Smokemare

    Smokemare ITF TKD 2nd Dan

    Exactly - Organisation problem. Would you be getting better training in a good Kung Fu organisation, than a bad TKD organisation? I would say possibly.

    However if your particular instructor was good, and better than the organisation you all belonged to - then the shortcomings of the organisation might be outweighed.

    *Edit: It could be your previous instructor was the issue - which as I stated, really a good instructor is worth more than art or organisation when it comes to quality of training.
     
  4. Peter Lewis

    Peter Lewis Matira Matibay

    We are talking from a commercial standpoint here. Students being important becuase they pay the instructor, who in turn pays the organisation. With this perspective, the art is dismissed as unimportant!

    The thread title 'What makes a good martial artist?' is a little misleading concerning the direction in which the thread is presented. In no order, I believe that some of the following make a good martial artist:

    Compassion
    Humanity
    Honesty
    Integrity
    Self-respect and respect for others
    Focus
    Knowing right from wrong
    Judgement and being non-judgemental
    Knowledge
    Willingness to learn
    Ability to apply knowledge and skills
    Commitment to continually developing
    Ability to transfer knowledge, skills and passion to other people

    With respect

    Peter
     
  5. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Smokemare, no one who does FMA will agree with you(Peter included, I am sure). This is because we are ENTRUSTED with the art. Money does not matter, the ART matters first.

    Then you can add the other items in Peter's list.
     
  6. Mitch

    Mitch Lord Mitch of MAP Admin

    How does your list differ from the list required for being a good Lawyer, Mechanic or human being?

    Mitch
     
  7. Smokemare

    Smokemare ITF TKD 2nd Dan

    I see these things as integrated within the most important thing - YOU.
     
  8. Peter Lewis

    Peter Lewis Matira Matibay

    Hi Simon

    Correct!!! :)
     
  9. Peter Lewis

    Peter Lewis Matira Matibay

    Hi Mitch

    It doesn't differ at all. It's about being the very best that you can be within your own potential and without the distraction of material issues.

    Respectfully

    Peter
     
  10. Peter Lewis

    Peter Lewis Matira Matibay

    HIGH FIVE!!! :hail:
     
  11. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Sincerity,honesty and effort.

    Less associations and more association.

    No machos mystics politics or " personalities."
     
  12. d0ugbug

    d0ugbug learning to smile

    Compassion
    Honesty
    Knowing right from wrong

    I've never met a mechanic with any of them qualities ;) lol
     
  13. Doublejab

    Doublejab formally Snoop

    I was the guy you describe who went ao a McDojo and trained really hard and read books and thought about martial arts constantly, and I still couldn't fight. I just got fitter and stronger.
     
  14. Doublejab

    Doublejab formally Snoop

    No room for, you know, actually being any good at martial arts then?
     
  15. Peter Lewis

    Peter Lewis Matira Matibay

    LOL

    Empty your cup Snoop. Of course there is room for being good at martial arts...point being that while you are so focused on techniques the intrinsic benefits are unlikely to be achieved.
     
  16. Theforgotten

    Theforgotten Drifting Aimlessly

    IMVHO, I believe that the instructor is the most important part because you can have the largest and fanciest organization in the world, but it doesn't mean anything if there aren't any people who can teach the art effectively. Likewise, an organization can be total crap, but if it has many great instructors, then nobody is going to really care too much as long as they are getting good instruction for their money.

    I think that another thing that comes into play is how do you define a good organization, or what makes an organization good? Is it the perks that it provides to its members? The curriculum that it teaches? The amount of representation and opportunities that it provides at the national and international level? An organization can do all of these things while still having bad teachers, rushing students through the ranks for money, and being a day care center. Don't get me wrong - I can certainly see the value in belonging to a good organization - I just think that sometimes the importance of one's org gets overplayed. I have experienced some of the best training from a guy teaching out of his garage, which he modified and turned into a kind of mini-dojang. No organization or anything involved, just a guy teaching for the love of it, and doing a damn good job of it.

    As for what makes a good martial artist, I would say everything in Peter Lewis' list, plus actually being good at martial arts, and I would add a stong sense of dedication. I think that it is very abstract. being a good martial artist involves many of the same points as just being a good person in general as TKDMitch pointed out. Can't we just say that being a good person and actually being good at martial arts makes a person a good martial artist?
     
  17. Doublejab

    Doublejab formally Snoop

    Could you clarify that? I'm not sure of the meaning.
     
  18. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    Snoop- fitter and stronger are part of the equation. Loads of people injure themselves soon after they start. Perhaps you needed your previous training to prepare you for what you do now?
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2010
  19. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    I don't know, I seem to find that all those things are required of a human being rather than a martial artist. Arms are important for a human being, but if asked what is important for a martial artist, you wouldn't say "elbow joints". It's assumed.

    Everyone says that martial arts will make you a better person. It won't. The good ones reach the top because they're sincere, self critical, and hardworking. The "good person" part comes first, and is entirely independent.
     
  20. Peter Lewis

    Peter Lewis Matira Matibay

    View it as an iceberg. The part above the water is the physical side of martial arts. All the techniques, uniform, belts, competitions, trophies and certificates are here. What is below the water is a massive amount of other benefits and attributes that make up the martial artist / person. So, my comment refers to being focused on techniques...things like, 'I have the best turning kick,' 'our system is better than yours,' 'I can punch faster than you' etc etc etc. These aspects of martial arts are really trivia compared with the lifelong intrinsic (internal / personal) benefits that can be achieved. The martial arts system (especially in the West) with all the belts, ranks, titles etc actually encourages people to remain shallow and think mainly about the physical aspects of the arts.

    Respectfully

    Peter
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2010

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