What is your favourite weapons based martial art and/or style and why?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Flyingknees, Jul 5, 2021.

  1. Kemposhot

    Kemposhot Valued Member

    HEMA has always interested me. Especially in the historical context. Possibly the only weapon based art that I’m interested in. Let us know how it goes!
     
  2. lklawson

    lklawson Valued Member

    I'm a bit late into this discussion but, honestly, footwork and measure are arguably key elements of non-sport fencing. Much of the Spanish destreza was about teaching footwork and angles, the toreno was about teaching measure with the weapon, and Silver's True Times was very much a part of teaching measure and "priority of movement."

    That said, I agree that olympic fencing is a far cry from what it was, never mind what when it was a training method for dueling. :)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
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  3. lklawson

    lklawson Valued Member

    HEMA covers a LOT of ground. Can you be more specific about what you tried out? I'm guessing something in the Lichtenauer tradition, based on how popular it is.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  4. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    You know, I've thought about this since I saw the thread and I can honestly say I don't know. I think the best thing about weapons training to me is the way they bleed into one another, the way there's kind of a continuum of blades, and some of those movements are shared with sticks, and flails, and the longer sticks are shared with spears, and spears with bayonets, and so on. Practicality aside it's the common thread which binds them which I find entrancing. And if we don't put practicality aside then it's going to be firearms and knives.
     
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  5. Kemposhot

    Kemposhot Valued Member

    If we are counting firearms I’d agree as well. I’ve begun to venture into training courses involving them, including the use of simunition rounds. It’a very practical training and should be something all firearm owners (who keep them for self defense) seek out.
     
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  6. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    It's also one of those things where I don't understand why people tend to limit their conception of martial arts to pre-gunpowder. Like, to many people bayonet fighting would be a martial art, but shooting is not, archery would be a martial art, but musketry, or pistol shooting, would not, the weapon retention skills to keep a hold of a duty sidearm would be martial arts, but using the sidearm would not.

    It is a strangely fossilized perspective on what constitutes weapons when it comes to martial arts.
     
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  7. Kemposhot

    Kemposhot Valued Member

    I agree 100%. There is an old martial art specifically for firearms called Hojutsu. Similar to archery style martial arts. I believe I read that a group from Alaska was working on a modern version of it a few years back in Black Belt magazine.

    While I’ve noticed some martial artists still have the old school mentality of being against firearm usage, I’ve observed a large movement towards embracing them. Especially with the rise in popularity of reality based self defense.
     
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  8. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    While there was the occasional "my body is my only weapon" sentiment expressed in writings over the years I don't think that mentality was ever pervasive in the US. Too many practitioners with civilian/military/law enforcement experience with firearms.

    Heck, a book I bought from Jesse Glover had an old photo of Bruce Lee on the cover with a 357 on his hip and a 30-06 in his hands!

    I still fail to understand why people have a concern whether something is called an "art" or not. If any and all skills are considered arts -Western boxing,Hsing I,plumbing,animal husbandry,rugby,carpentry-and must be referred to as such it becomes a meaningless term.

    The term has been used both East and West for certain combative practices of sport/ritual/real world purposes and became a blanket term in the West for any such practices coming from Asia,and thence to various systems coming from such background then developed in the West.

    Some groups never chose to identify heavily with the term. So while European fencing has been oft described as an art, American wrestling not so much. Guess the arty label wasn't a concern.

    So why do any and all practices which develops pragmatic skills whether of sporting or real world applications need to be labelled an art?

    Because it's socially more acceptable to say you're practicing an art-even if the "art" is butchering someone , combat shotgunning or choking someone out? Well,probably.

    Because it somehow elevates such practices to the "status" of Martial Art? As if they needed it?

    Or just because it's a common term?

    Well,that's my derailment for today.
    Back to your regularly scheduled thread.
     
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  9. Yanli

    Yanli Banned Banned

    I started out with fencing, I loved what you learn with movement of your body and foil, and this I was able to incorporate with many other sword fighting styles. I have a very hug sword collection, and out of all the swords, I would say that the foil would be the best sword to first learn.
     
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  10. Yanli

    Yanli Banned Banned

    A practice of anything to its finest point falls into an art, you are correct that some things are not labeled as an art, such as wrestling. It is not the action itself that is consider an art, it is the mastering of the action to its most potential that makes it an art. Take for example the comparison of martial arts to a sniper, a martial artist is mastering the usage of their body to its highest potential, as where a sniper is mastering the rifle to its highest potential. We all know the effort that is needed to be a great martial artist, well, being a great sniper takes being able to pull the Triger properly so the rifle does not pull, knowing how to accurately gage setting the scope to the distance of the target, and many other factors.
     
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  11. Yanli

    Yanli Banned Banned

    One thing to remember when learning any weapon, whether it is a sword, staff, or a cane, learn the weapon. Learn its balance, its strengths and weakness, where its back force begins and ends. Take for example, comparing a samurai sword to a cane, the top end of both of them will guide the force, and the bottom end will direct the force. If you can get that down, you can easily master the cane. Now, it sounds easy, and for some it may be, but, not so for some people lol. Take a foil to a samurai, the guiding and controlling is completely different. Do not make more out of the cane then you need to, its not that difficult to learn.
     
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  12. Yanli

    Yanli Banned Banned

    I personally preferer the longer stick, you can give more of a smack on your block or strike.
     
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  13. Yanli

    Yanli Banned Banned

    My wife and I are old school, but we still love practicing with rifles, pistols, crossbows, compound bows, and many-many other weapons. We feel that any knowledge or skill can further add to our growth.
     
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  14. Yanli

    Yanli Banned Banned

    Some months ago, a friend showed me the Olympic fencing tournament, and he thought that was true fencing. I could not believe how badly fencing was destroyed in so many ways. I could not believe when one of the people got a point because his foil accidently grazed the top of his opponents head, hhhhmmmm.
     
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  15. Botta Dritta

    Botta Dritta Valued Member

    You do not get a point for hitting the head in foil. The head is off target in foil. Perhaps you were thinking of epee?

    The quality of the hits in the thrusting weapons has never really been a problem in fencing. The minimum is 500g in foil and 750g in epee and in competition is often in excess of this. Along with the bend in the blade it is more than 500g/750g is more than sufficient to pierce the skin and penetrate the internal organs. The old fencing masters taught this way because you really didn't want to run a person through like in the movies: you run the risk of not being able to extract the blade and being hit with afterblow before being able to return in guard out of distance.Three fingers penetration was sufficient. Any more and you begin to run a risk.

    The reason why the first third of the blades are flexible is because if they weren't no amount of protective equipment would prevent terrible accidents from occurring in a regular basis. We really don't want another Smirnov where someone gets impaled in the head on live tv.

    The Problem with sport fencing today in foils and sabre is what is being determined as an attack. The Right of way rules may seem arcane, but they were a standard training practice way to keep you alive when sharp points were involved: unlike unarmed combat you don't counterattack into an attack with sharps, unless you are markedly superior to your opponent, as you run the risk of double kills. If he attacks you have to negate his attack first.

    The big problem is at least in foil and sabre is that today an attack does not have to be pointed at the opponent, just an 'extension' of the arm which is silly particulary with thrusting weapons where to be even vaguely realistic the point has to be pointed towards the mass of the torso to be considered a threat. A person advancing towards you with their point at the sky or the floor is ripe for an attack on preparation.

    Epee of course does not have rules and is the closest of the three disciplines to duelling.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2022
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  16. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Well-Known Member

    Ah weapons. I posted earlier in this thread that I felt the dao (saber/broadsword) material in the Tibetan Crane that I study is solid.

    well, I managed to stab myself in the leg recently in a training accident. I still feel the material is solid, and I have a newfound enhanced respect for the weapon. Pictures attached.

    three deep stitches and eight staples to close it up. I get the staples out tomorrow.
     

    Attached Files:

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  17. Botta Dritta

    Botta Dritta Valued Member

    Ugh. I broke a foil a couple of weeks ago and left it in my fencing bag out of the way, but didn't put it away securely (idiot!). Went fishing for something else later and managed to graze the top of my hand on the broken point. Initially it looked like a scratch then it bled profusely. Didn't require stiches, just annoying. Could easily have been worse. Looking at the faint scar now. I'm older now and cuts don't heal as quick...
     
  18. Botta Dritta

    Botta Dritta Valued Member

    Incidentally what did you do? That's on your shin...
     
  19. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Dang! I hope it continues to recover well! Do you practice with a sharp sword? Or did you manage to do that with an unsharpened sword?:eek:
     
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  20. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Well-Known Member

    Yeah, it’s amazing how quickly things can turn bad. I was very very lucky that my injury was not worse than it was. Reflecting on how the accident happened, I realize that if it had struck my leg in various different places than it did, I could have left myself in need of some serious surgery and risk of a permanently injured leg, or I could have hit a major artery and simply bled out in the back yard, as I was home alone at the time. I am taking this incident as an unfortunate, but important opportunity to learn something about safety, and perspective on how dangerous these weapons can be.

    i did some foil fencing in college, and had a couple blades break in the middle of an engagement. It always struck me that if we didn’t immediately stop the action, those ragged blades could drive right through the padded vest.
     
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