What is your favourite Taiji fighting technique?

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by jkzorya, May 11, 2007.

  1. jkzorya

    jkzorya Moved on by request

    In response to Cloudhandz recently mentioning he'd like to see more martial and less mystical threads around here (or words to that effect), I'd like to ask everyone what their favourite Taiji fighting technique is.

    Please can I ask that the thread does not start drifting in any kind of energetic direction - no tales of empty force or redirecting energy (please, for me, call it incoming momentum or something :) ).

    My favourite is Brush Knee - not very glamorous, just a rolling in and out circling parry with the left hand and a dropping strike with the right. It is my favourite because I used it in a street fight and can vouch for its effectiveness, especially when the striking method is a metal walking stick. The guy was drunk and was attacking my friend Julie, for the record.

    Anyway it taught me a couple of things. One - you can't predict what you're going to use in a real fight. If I'd had time to think I might have picked some flashy Bagua thing, but Brush Knee was right there when needed. Thanks Brush Knee.

    Oh the second thing it taught me was that practicing form as if facing an enemy and facing an enemy as if practicing form is only partly true. I had to hit him twice. The first was as if doing form (albeit speeded up) and only contained the intent to get him to spin around and fight me instead. The second time it had intent to cause damage. That was the one that worked.

    So what's your fave technique and why?
  2. cheesypeas

    cheesypeas Moved on

    What a great new thread I thought as I sit in my bunker, letting all the verbal sparring of other threads wizz around me.

    I thought, I'll join in this one...seeing as MAP is a discussion forum.

    But no...

    Before I even start, I read your 'conditions of discussion'

    I also have strong beliefs but am always open to talk and dont try to restrict other peoples responses.

  3. Taoquan

    Taoquan Valued Member

    Great idea JK!

    Alright, for me I enjoy single whip. My first teacher had a fondness for it so he used it frequently and showed me how versatile of a technique it is. He had this big Harley Davidson motorcycle he liked to ride and would always equate him riding that to Single Whip.

    The versatility of it being a grab, a punch, a control technique (chin na), defensive, his favorite (and now mine :D ) was being able to sink into snake creeps down so easily while still being able to maintain great contact with the opponent, or take them with you. He often told me he felt that if you just stood in Single (ala Zhan Zhuang) for hours it would make you a master in a few years. :D
  4. jkzorya

    jkzorya Moved on by request

    Sorry Carys - I didn't mean to offend you, I was just trying to safeguard against the thread deteriorating into another qi battle. I remember posting a thread a while back about the names of the techniques asking how they were applied in different styles and it fizzled out fairly quickly, which prompted me to think that more martial threads were less popular than the debates about "internal" stuff.

    Then I saw Cloudhandz on another couple of threads crying out for more martial content and less mysticism, so I wrote in the safeguard to try to avoid arguments. I did think retrospectively that it might be taken the wrong way and it has, but maybe we can move on. :)

    p.s. Thanks TQ :)
  5. fatb0y

    fatb0y Valued Member

    Any of the variations of BUMP and ELBOW, because you have to be real close and people don't expect them.
  6. cheesypeas

    cheesypeas Moved on


    That makes sense..perhaps next time you can explain like you have here. :D

    I don't write much here because of the bull headed ranting of opposing views...mainly regarding Qi.

    Will contibute later....life calls right now..haha.
  7. Taoquan

    Taoquan Valued Member

    Yeah I love the little slip of an elbow when you are pushing hands or sparring :D
    That is one technique that I think Tai Chi in particular lends itself well to, you are so relaxed so flowing that most other styles will never see how an elbow can slip into the mix.
    Though sneaky my teacher also commented on two of Master Ren's favorite techniques. One was the "Chen style" (in quotes because I have seen other stylists use it) knee knock or bump in push hands. This can quickly throw an opponents awarness off. Also Master Ren's favorite technique was to be in a push hands comp, then to slide immediately down into serpent right between the opponents legs and throw them.

    Great stuff :D
  8. fatb0y

    fatb0y Valued Member

    There are some nice examples here - although the style is monkey, I like monkey.
  9. piratebrido

    piratebrido internet tough guy

    Repulse Monkey.

    Osoto and Sasae Tsuri Komi Ashi rolled into one. Go for the Osoto part then switch to the Sasae part to really send them flying to the floor. My favourite wrestling technique.
  10. middleway

    middleway Valued Member

    Ji is my favorite. Pressing or crushing stuff is such a great combative idea.... you have no where to go ... your pinned between two forces.

    here are some very slow simple ideas from Ji.


  11. jkzorya

    jkzorya Moved on by request

    Hi Chris,
    I'm less keen on that interpretation of Ji as it relies on biceps strength to implement the embracing palm aspect. The whole body can power the pushing hand but the pulling inwards hand is totally reliant on arm strength. So I'd tend to apply ji more often as two vectors travelling in very similar directions, converging on the single point. That way, centrifugal whole body momentum can be expressed in both arms. This fits nicely with the dictionary definition of ji which is to squeeze your way through a crowd, prising your way through gaps in a wedge-like manner.
    Last edited: May 13, 2007
  12. middleway

    middleway Valued Member

    yes its an interesting method J, i do like your idea behind it too.

    i disagree with the idea that bicep strength is the key to the 'outside force', for instance, there are many many applications of ji where it is used in conjunction with the should or elbow as the 'outside' structure, not just the arm. So IMO these examples of form method in use are in fact a little redundant. They are interesting only really to show something people can relate too from the form.

    If you look at ... for instance ... the application where there is a double punch and i crush the head or the 'wrist lock', here we have power converging without the 'form' movement appearance and the reliance on bicep for the application of the force.

  13. Nordoff

    Nordoff New Member

    Good old 7 stars.
    It worked great in metallica's mosh pit. :eek:
  14. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Hey pb, am interested in this. Not familiar with the Japanese terms. Could you explain a bit more, does it involve grabbing a leg for instance?

    Cheers bud.

    hmm what my fave what's my fave.. ughg the name of it escapes me right now i'll have to get back to you.
  15. daftyman

    daftyman A 4oz can of whoop-ass!

    repulse monkey? for me that's a deflect with one hand while poking the eyes/throat with the other. Attack in retreat.

    My fave move? The wind rolls the fair lady's lotus blossom! erm....no more happy pills for me I think!

    How about the preparation. Poking the guy in the eyes as he comes toward you.

    Also a fan of the cloud hands/start of ward off where you use your body and arm to attack the elbow joint in a locking breaking kinda thingy.

    Plenty of deflect/counter moves in there too.

    I do show the posture apps in class, but more for entertainment, i.e. If my assistant would have the good grace to attack me in just the right way, then I'd do this...

    Were I to start training then it'd be: here's an idea from the form. How many ways can we use it? Focusing on the principle rather than the actual posture.
  16. piratebrido

    piratebrido internet tough guy

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAPocX60KWo"]Osoto-gari - YouTube[/ame]

    That's Osoto, and you can see the second part of repluse monkey there. The foot sweeping back.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWtn1qEHyTo"]Sasae Tsuri-Komi Ashi (Instruction) - YouTube[/ame]

    Sasae tsuri komi ashi. The first part of repluse money, the leg comming out to prop the leg.

    I am on the lookout for a mobile phone this week. Will get one with a video recorder and will take a clip for you. I hope to get together a few clips.
  17. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Thanks for those mate,

    that would be cool! :)
  18. Taoquan

    Taoquan Valued Member

    I have also seen repulse the monkey done from a two opponent perspective where the retreating arm is actually an elbow to the sternum and the front hand is a strike. Then as you follow through with the move, the attacking forward hand grabs and pulls back, where the once retreating arm (as it comes up) becomes a hip toss.

    Thousands of possibilities, this is why my master says "I can show you millions of applications, but you understand one thoroughly you will see the millions." :D
  19. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Hey, Joanna.That's a pretty orthodox interpretation of using chi/ji w/both arms.In fact,I'd say that's THE interpretation in that context.

    A very nice (?) use of Repulse is after executing a rise,drill,fall,overturn, the descending hand has now brought the opponents upper torso into an angle especially conducive to a palm smash to the top of the head, impacting the vertebrae in the neck.Of course, the arms move simutaneously.

    Personally, my favorites are splitting moves that wrench the limb joints and down the opponent over your leg.Not something to be used unless the situation is very serious, of course, due to the maiming/killing possibilities.

    Elbows?I think it was Wm. Chen who once said it all comes down to knees and elbows.
  20. jkzorya

    jkzorya Moved on by request

    It's a matter of angle. If the front arm grabs and pulls backwards, that's fine. If it tries to maintain a horizontal arc and brace against the forwards striking hand then the pincer is only as strong as the biceps strength of the front arm. That's all. I've learned similar pincer and shearing movements in Silat, but there the most foolproof and effective kind of execution might involve the retreating hand striking backwards on the rear of the opponent's shoulder while the extending hand strikes forwards and twists the jaw to break the neck. This observes the tongbei principle beautifully. I'm not saying people don't do it the other way, but I am saying it is reliant on biceps strength and is therefore less foolproof. I know that if I met you for half an hour and we explored the differences, you'd end up agreeing, because I'm right. Sorry for being obnoxious :) I am right sometimes.
    Last edited: May 16, 2007

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