What is the precise definition of martial arts?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by BrendanCassidy, Jun 21, 2020.

  1. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Is the "Kalashnikov Principle" a real thing?

    Because that's a really insightful comment.

    And I also can't find anything obvious on Google about it!
     
  2. Botta Dritta

    Botta Dritta Valued Member

    No It's something I cobbled together merging the 7+/- 2 psychology theory (The Magical Number Seven, Plus or Minus Two - Wikipedia) with the interesting reading on the Kalshnikov rifle, where its designer Mikhail Kalashnikov in order to create a rifle for large production and able to withstand the rigours of war, pared down the workings to 8 working parts that can be cleaned/replaced/unjammed/repaired with ease. This kind of thinking is emblematic of Cold War Soviet thinking on production processes, where rugged monkey models would be created first for export into proxy war zones/client states, while the USSR kept the high spec variants for themselves. The factory that made hydraulics for tank turrets gets bombed by Uncle Sam? No worries a hand crank can easily be added on the basic model and the high spec variant if needs be and keep the production lines flowing. In the UK if a Challenger 2 tank breaks down someone at the MOD probably softly cries themselves to sleep.

    Incidentally they took this mindset into Olympic Fencing where the Eastern Block smashed the traditional powerhouses of Italy and France for the much of the 1970's, by doing such things as throwing the traditional fencing manuals in the bin and working their asses off on focusing on sports science and limiting their techniques so that high percentage techniques became efficient. Perhaps not pretty with endless arabesques and feints. But solid.

    But yeah... the Kalshnikov Principle is something i made up. I tend to use it as a rule of thumb when creating lesson plans for beginners so that I don't make the mistake of cramming too much stuff that they can't remember when they get back home. Though I doubt no-one else hasn't thought of it before.

    EDIT: Actually its already a thing: A quote from the great Gun Designer Himself:

    "When a young man, I read somewhere the following : The God Almighty said, "All that is too complex is unnecessary, and it is simple that is needed" ... So this has been my lifetime motto – I have been creating weapons to defend the borders of my fatherland, to be simple and reliable."
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
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  3. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    That link isn't 100% accurately written. The first literal mentions of "martial arts" are about 500 years old, from the Latin artem martialis, and late French and English translations we know today.

    The 1909 reference is just the first time in English the term was used to describe the collective war arts of Japan.

    The 1909
     
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  4. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    There isn't a precise definition of martial arts. If there were, this forum would have sewed it up years and years ago. We can't agree on what "martial" means and we can't agree on what "art" means. So there's little hope of landing on a definitive meaning of "martial arts."

    Do we really need one?
     
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  5. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Gonna get that put on a t shirt
     
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  6. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    No, it's not a form of martial arts... or martial law for that matter. I think it's important with language that you don't get overly hung up on either end of the spectrum. It's possible to be so literal that you end up excluding a lot of valid things. But it's equally possible to be so flexible in your definitions that defining a thing is pointless in the first place. There's competition between two people hurrying up to the buffet to secure the last piece of pie as well, but you presumably wouldn't define that as "martial arts."

    On the other end, focusing too heavily on a literal definition of these words doesn't really reflect our reality. Literally, "martial" might mean "related to war." But we all know that many of the recognized martial arts come out of a civilian tradition, or even out of the need to keep a force prepared during times of NOT war.

    As for "art," a lot of people choose to interpret that in the modern sense, focusing on creativity and personal expression (which can validate some widely varied approaches to training). But the more archaic use of the term is as a substitute for what we would today call "method" or "technique." Which puts a very different angle on things.

    That's a lot of cognitive hand wringing which, at the end of the day, doesn't really have much bearing on actual practice.
     
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  7. IronMaiden1991

    IronMaiden1991 Active Member

    This conflates the definition of competition with fighting in the sense of competition in martial arts/combat sports. It isn't really a useful way to use the word competition in the same way it is strange to me to see people refering to Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft as being 'at war' in the video game console market. Context is the important part in the sense of comparison
     

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