What is Silat?

Discussion in 'Silat' started by kungfufighter, Dec 30, 2004.

  1. ICT

    ICT Shaolin Malay Silat


    Pencak and Silat are not two different arts. The saying goes you cannot have Silat without Pencak and if your doing just Pencak you have no Silat.

    In other words the two combined is what makes the art. This is what the words mean:

    Pencak - Skillful body movements
    Silat - Application of Pencak

    So if you have Pencak you have skillful body movements just like the female Indonesian dancers do but it doesn't mean you can use it to fight with.

    That is why a lot of Silat practitioners emphasis the difference between the two words.

    Teacher: Eddie Ivester
  2. smokalot

    smokalot New Member

    false history

    Did Lohan says indonesia had border wars with china???

    wooo thats is false history...where did he get this information from?
    indonesia or the older kingdoms that once ruled these islands never had any beef with china...our only hostile contact was
    with the mongol...and i knew historically that china was never an imperialist or colonialist. why would they tried to capture our lands? we're friends.

    and we dont even share border with china...
  3. Moridin

    Moridin New Member

    Why try? Indonesia is a huge territory, huge population and has a very very old history. Pencak Silat is huge, it's so many styles, forms amd branches. Anyone on this planet saying he exactly knows how/what/when/where/who of it, is (IMO) a fool or a liar. Even if you're a 100 years old. Even if you're 200 years old, it's too big, too old, to diverse. And also at heart a closed-door tradition.

    So why waste time here? Open the grain barrel and take what your hands can hold, but remember, your hands can never hold all the grain.
  4. Kiai Carita

    Kiai Carita Banned Banned

    Salam Silat everyone, I am an Indonesian silat practitioner and would like to join in the discussion on what is silat. There is a theory that the words silat and pencak are both rooted in Chinese, however there are many silat practitioners who would not agree with this. Some say that silat is from Arabic, and pencak from Javanese. However Chinese and Indonesian martial artists have been socializing for millenia so there is alot of overlapping. Currently in Indonesia the word silat can also mean kung-fu.

    The PGB White Crane Silat School in Bogor is a silat school although it has alot of Shaolin as its base. The late great Grand Master Subur Raharja (Suhu) was a fighter for Indonesian independence and although he began studying under his uncle who was a kung fu practitioner of Chinese martial arts he also studied under Indonesian teachers and was an exellent pupil. Because Suhu also had Indonesian Gurus, including from the royal family of Lombok, the PGB style is very-very rich. I don't mean the school has alot of money, but it has alot of knowledge as it has the rich Chinese traditions and I think four Indonesian ones on top of that.

    The current Suhu of PGB Bangau Putih is Gunawan Raharja who is a very humble man in his forties who dedicates much of his time to healing people.

    Indonesia has never had a war with China and shares no boundaries with China. Indonesian fighting arts began before the Majapahit Empire, as the warriors of Kubilai Khan were slaughtered by Raden Wijaya's men who used martial arts (and trickery) to do this.

    Salam Persilatan
  5. rizal

    rizal Valued Member

    hmmm, to confuse matters.
    The word Pencak came from Java, and at first, was used to refer the style from that Island. It is suspected that the original form of the word is Penca, WHICH means the movement of the arts. The fighting part is called Maepo, which meant "to forget to play", underlying the seriousness of every pendekar view about fighting.
    The word silat came from sumatra. In the Malayu parts of the island, the word "Silek" is most commonly used. Unlike their brethren, Silat means both the movement and the fighting parts. The word is also used to indicate the fighting arts of the malay-speaking regions, which encompasses malay peninsula, borneo, southern parts of philipines.
    Today, Pencak Silat usually is shorten to Silat and it is enough to indicate that the style is rooted in the malay-speaking region of SE Asia.
    There are sayings that Pencak Silat came from China. I think it is the same that we are saying that Karate is another form of China boxing or Kung Fu was brought from India by Bhodidarma.
    I think it is better to say that the indigineous fighting style in SE asia is EXPOSED to chinese fighting styles. Other styles which silat is exposed to among other thing is greco-roman wrestling and the old form of Kalaripayat in india. If you come to Indonesia or Malaysia, seek out the old Candi and look at the drawings.
    I think the proper class of chinese kung-fu that came to SE Asia is kun tao/ kuntaw.
    And no, Indonesia - or more specifically, the Indonesian Archipelago has no borders with china. Every world map will show that we are surrounded by water. Only once the Chinese sent an army to Indonesia, and despite early victories, in the end it was sent of packing.
  6. Kiai Carita

    Kiai Carita Banned Banned

  7. rizal

    rizal Valued Member

    actually, if you talk about Sundanese silat, the 'play' part is called Ibing. I think this gave the rise of the somewhat false assumption of the 'silat dance'.
    yes, ibing is a dance. but those who studied MA will immediately find that the moves employed are like kata for karate, but somewhat modified so the beauty, the gracefulness is more emphazied (i think everyone agree that in combat, no MA ever look graceful, except if done by a true master).
    Maenpo is not a 'battle silat' but the employment of silat's juruses in combat.
  8. Kiai Carita

    Kiai Carita Banned Banned

    I would guess that cross polination between martial arts have been goiing on since before Noah's flood. In the recent years, like during the 6th century until the 9th century the Asian world had China in the East, India in the West, and Sriwijaya in the centre. Archaeologists think that the Sriwijaya city was along the Musi river. There is alot of written evidence that monks from China would stop for a few years in Sriwijaya to learn languages and religious skills. The Sriwijaya empire was large. They dinasty also built the Borobudur temple in central Java.

    Majapahit was founded by Raden Wijaya who with the help of the fighters of Aria Wiraraja from Madura kicked back Kubilai Khan's marines who were sent in a punitive expedition to crush the king of Java (Kartanegara of Singasari) who had humiliated the Great Khan's messenger because the Khan had the cheek to ask the king of Singasari to pay tribute to China.

    Pajajaran in West Java was the only kingdom in the region not to pay tribute to Majapahit. I think that by the Majapahit time martial arts in Indonesia had been influenced by both India and China, and also by the political divides in the region, namely, Sumatra, West Jawa, and East and Central Java. The fall of Majapahit in the 15th century further changed regional styles of silat just as the arrival of Islam did as well. Many Chinese Muslims settled in the north coast of Java. In fact, one city now called Lasem (lao-Sam) was built exclusively for the Chinese.

    Western dominance and political upheavals in both China and South East Asia further developed martial arts, and the Japanese military occupation made an impact all over Indonesia. O'ong Maryono has done very good research about this.

    Currently the globalization of silat is further changing it even more. For example nowadays on the web one can see an European pendekar advertising silat in a Sunda groom's wedding costume weilding a drawn Java keris, or advertising skills in the use of the kujang, while for Javanese and Sundanese alike, the keris and or the kujang is not a physical weapon (while in Sumatra and tanah Melayu and Mindanau, the keris is used to fight and kill). Or there is a school that miss-pronounce's Cimande so spells it as if the phonetical sound of the name was Chee-mindi.

    For the past few generations traditional Chinese artists have found refuge and have been accepted within Indonesian communities. I find white crane silat in Bogor particularly interesting because it proves that Indonesian silat has something to offer, even to a tradition as classic as the ones brought by venerable Chinese families. Visit the white crane school in Bogor and one will see just how well this Chinese-tradition-based school is loved within their neighbourhood or read Jaida Samudra's ethnographic field-work from the school for a clearer picture. FYI Jaida Samudra's paper is avaiable on the web, just google it and run down the page somewhat.

    Some people think that Indonesians never have had good relations with the ethnic Chinese here. This is not true. The Chinese uprising in the early 18'th century was well supported by the people of Java. Only after the Dutch managed to hold power over the Java did the racism become rather nasty and this was because of the Dutch declaring it illegal for Javanese to trade between islands or between ports. Only the Chinese, Indians and Arabs were allowed to do this. Centuries of this colonial policy is still reaping victims now.

    Until the Japanese period most Javanese family styles were not called pencak or silat but were called kanuragan (meaning knowledges of the body) .... Since the late 1960's / early 1970's Asmaraman S Kho Ping Hoo, Ganes TH, SH Mintaraja and other Indonesian silat writers have blurred the meanings of silat and kungfu and pencak.

    :) :) So Chinese influence in Indonesian martial arts began very early and continued in several big waves. My question is how did the Indonesian martial arts influence the Chinese? After all when the Chinese monks stopped to study the texts in 6th century Sriwijaya they must of come inyto contact with the traditions of moving the body and mind which lived there. Or when the Ming armadas landed in Pasai, Banten, Cirebon, Tuban, Bali, they also would have exchanged knowledge with the local martial artists. Centuries after that, when the Chinese led one of Java's first attempts to shake off the Dutch muskets they were popular heroes all over Java and an other period of cross-polination must have occured. :cool:

    Lastly does it really matter where silat came from? :D To much talk no latihan means cyber pendekar?


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