What is RCSF?

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts' started by Pat OMalley, Nov 29, 2009.

  1. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    The discussion in the FMA Training partner wanted in NW has begged the question. What is Real Contact Stick Fighting? And does it do what it say's on the tin?

    I am a firm beleiver in that all the various formats have their Pro's and Con's, each has a way of enhancing certain skills the others dont do so well at.

    But also by the very nature that each has a degree of protection how ever limited by rules and equipment, can we really call it REAL?

    If so, what does REAL mean to you?

    Best regards

    Pat
     
  2. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    if we're talking real then let's make it real.

    no armor

    live stick

    ways to win:

    stick drop

    surrender

    knockout
     
  3. Peter Lewis

    Peter Lewis Matira Matibay

    Well said Shooto. :) Obviously, keeping it 'real,' dropping the stick may not actual mean the end of a live confrontation!

    In my view, 'REAL' means that I would have the skills, knowledge, techniques, confidence and competence to apply it in a 'REAL' situation...i.e to defend myself or my family in a live street scenario. Generally, that would involve breaking many of the imposed rules to keep the art safe for practitioners. This makes the 'REAL' aspect very much an individual thing, rather than something that can be mass-produced. What is 'real' for me may not be real for Pat, or anyone else. Hence the potential for heated debate on such a topic.

    Gumagalang

    Peter
     
  4. Mananandata

    Mananandata Valued Member

    Real Contact Stickfighting means just that, i.e.they apply real contact live stick striking as opposed to tippy-tappy air flicks and skin touches.
     
  5. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Then in that case surely some of the WEKAF players do Real Contact Stickfighting with live sticks and many of the padded stick guys are too as not all lean towards the tapi tapi flicky flicky and the padded stick is still a live stick with a light foam covering, I know I certainly never went for any tapi flicky stuff in my time and I always hit with full intention.

    And surely the minute you place guidlines, limit the intention of the players, add rules (even unwritten ones), and any form of protection even if limited, it is no longer real???

    Best regards

    Pat
     
  6. Peter Lewis

    Peter Lewis Matira Matibay

    Two points immediately come to mind here.

    1) Just because people claim to engage in fighting real contact / full contact / high impact (or any other name that attracts attention) does not necessarily make it 'REAL.' The format that you mention still has RULES!

    2) While I don't practice what you (perhaps offensively to some) term as 'tippy-tappy air flicks and skin touches,' I am certainly well aware that these strikes could take out any eye, break a nose, burst an ear drum etc. Point being, the effectiveness of a technique is not merely judged by the size of the bruise, which could more readily demonstrate that one person has a weak defense!

    Gumagalang

    Peter
     
  7. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    actually, the stick drop proviso is a throw back to the traditions of the philippines.

    you wouldn't "kill" an unarmed man when you are armed.

    well, ideally that is.
     
  8. shuyun3

    shuyun3 Shugyosha

    I do love live stick spars. But stating the obvious it can't be done every training day.

    If you bust your partner up too bad and he's out of training for a week or two there'd be no training there. (Been there done that, i mean the one busted).
     
  9. Peter Lewis

    Peter Lewis Matira Matibay

    Hmmmm Can I have time to think about that one? :)
     
  10. pmosiun

    pmosiun Valued Member

    RCSF without safety equipment sounded really dangerous. Even in kendo they use armor to protect themselves during sparring.
     
  11. Peter Lewis

    Peter Lewis Matira Matibay

    Exactly the point of the original question by Pat. How 'REAL' is it when there are rules and protective equipment? With this equipment and rules, it may be 'real' as a sport, but not as a survival system!
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
  12. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Without safety equipment and rules it is RCSF, anything else is a sport and that is my point, you may call it 'Real' but is it? And what you see as real may not be for someone else.

    Kendo is commonly recognised as a sport and is in no way considered 'Real'.

    Best regards

    Pat
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
  13. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    I have taken one or two idiots out in my time with what some would consider tippy tappy strikes, and I mean popped their head open and knocked them clean out. And I have seen it done too.

    Even in the full armour, tippy tappy can hurt, in 92 in Manila I had a certain corner man shouting at me that Abaniko's should not be scored as they are weak strikes, a few seconds later when his fighter was cringing because I broke his wrist with one, he was none too happy. Cause a bit of a stir too. But then more of a case of knowing how to use something that others may deem as weak maybe?

    So yes, just because a strike does not look powerfull to someone, does not mean it has not power behind it. The best way to find out whether the so called Tippy Tappy strikes are effective is to take off all the protection (how ever minimal) and get yourself on the receiving end of them, then you may find out what 'Real' is.

    So the big question is this. If we wear protection of any sorts and we have some guidlines and/or rules of play, are we really kidding ourselves when we call it 'Real'?????

    Best regards

    Pat
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
  14. pmosiun

    pmosiun Valued Member

    The Dog Brothers also do RCSF and they do get hurt when sparring.

    I think there was a thread around here where someone said that ninjutsu and real life role playing is more real than the dog brothers, but then someone showed that you actually get hurt in the dog brothers gathering and there was proof of it with pictures. I do think the dog brothers and kendo are real because they do not practice dead patterns or tippy tappy drills.

    I think the OP needs to read on Matt Thornton. Everything Matt said kinda makes sense in terms of aliveness.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
  15. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    A relatively flawed designator. Just like TMA, RBSD...

    Not to take anything away from the Dog Brothers or the Black Eagles. They're doing what they're doing. And the benefits and hazards of each are fairly obvious. Whether it's "real" or not is a philosophical quagmire. Whether it's useful is a different matter entirely. That's open for less debate, to my mind.


    Stuart
     
  16. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    aliveness...it's an old old concept in fma. someone just decided to re-brand it.

    all sparring methods have a place under the sun. from the fast no armor padded sticks, to the partly armoured light sticks to full on OLD SCHOOL. they teach you several things about true combat. let us not get lost in what is REAL because only a REAL fight is REAL.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2009
  17. Mananandata

    Mananandata Valued Member

    RCSF of course is still a sport but the pain and possible serious injuries inherent in this format are all real, way more real than the other SF formats.
     
  18. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Dont get me wrong Dog Brothers and my very own Black Eagle Society do push things to the extreme in that their is very limited rules and very excessive contact, but we are not 'Real', we could say that we are very nearly 'Real', or close to being 'Real', but because of the fact that both groups have some degree of protection and some rules, even if we are un-willing to admit it we are by the very nature still a sport all be it an extreme one.

    Best regards

    Pat
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2009
  19. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    And there we have it in a nut shell.

    'Nearly real' and 'As close to reality as possible' does not make it 'Real'.

    Like Shooto said, all formats have their place, all formats have great lessons to teach you and all have their downfalls too, and all can train certain attributes that the others cant.

    Do them all I say and you will learn lots of different aspect to help you in your 'Real' skills. But be sure, none of them have all the answers and none of them are 'Real'.

    Best regards

    Pat
     
  20. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    Yes you are correct, but it still aint 'Real' is it. So 'Really' should we even use the term 'Real'.

    ESF 'Extreme Stick Fighting' I think is more appropriate dont you think??? On no you cant use that one as I have just copywritten it for myself ;)

    Best regards

    Pat
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2009

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