What is Ninjutsu?

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by The Force, Nov 12, 2008.

  1. Morra

    Morra Valued Member

    What is ninjutsu?

    You can ask that about any MA.

    People are comparing ninjutsu vs BJJ or other arts, trying to answer what ninjutsu is. But it doesn't help because you can't name what any art is really.

    Just compare two schools of the same art: there will be big differences. Then to complicate it, each student has his or her own interpretation of the style.

    Going beyond just "what is ninjutsu", I'd say you define your own art by what you do with it, and how you interpret it through your own limitations and specialties.

    If you want hardcore sparring via ninjutsu--quit complaining and do it. Surely, there is someone there after class who wants to go all out, and test themselves with you after class. Get the head instructor to stay behind and fight with no pads (just wear a mouth guard!).

    Yeah, you'll get injuries, but that's a great feeling because you're delving into the art beyond some of the stale training methods that seem to limit ninjutsu.

    Don't blame the art, blame yourself and solve your problems. If no one at that school will work with you, move on.
  2. stephenk

    stephenk Valued Member

    I thought I deleted it before anyone responded. Had I seen your reply I would have let it stand.

    I prefer to post in a more 'polite' manner, but you can probably look at the time, make a few assumptions and figure out why I may have been a bit more likely to filter less.

    In any case. My point, while made in a semi-inappropriate way, still stands.

    Whatever, I think you have me confused for someone else. In any case, there is no magic technique, and any scenario that anyone provides, because of it's hypothetical nature, can be turned into something without value. That's my point with my radiator story.

    What is your point?

    I ask this in an entirely honest manner. Please lay out your position for me and I'd be happy to comment.
  3. adouglasmhor

    adouglasmhor Not an Objectivist

    Maybe he thinks you are me.
  4. Kikaku

    Kikaku Gakorai Tosha Akuma Fudo

    Right, so a whole lot of nothing then basically.

    So your contribution to this thread was to make one ridiculous childish post, which was a complete and utter waste of bandwidth. Now you’re asking me to justify my defence to it? :bang:

    It’s full of logical fallacy and it’s a poor straw man because I’m not trying to display “the perfect answer to life”. We’re having a conversation about the merits/pitfalls of cross training and how it combines with the Bujinkan. You then go off on a tangent, with some stupid straw man argument, which has no bearing on the conversation. It basically shows that you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about, but want to express your distaste and pseudo authority in any way you can. Hence the straw man.

    What postion!? What the hell are you talking about?

    You're not worth responding to after this.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2008
  5. Kikaku

    Kikaku Gakorai Tosha Akuma Fudo

    Easier said than done.

    In your case probably, yes.

    Ok, how is that relevent though?

    Then this conversation is going nowhere then.

    I've brought up age twice in this thread. Once to make a point in regards to your experience (and lack thereof in other areas) and once to highlight an immature post. So out of all the points I raised in my last post, this is the only thing you really want to make reference to?
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2008
  6. stephenk

    stephenk Valued Member

    So let's make an observation, for anyone who cares to:

    Please look at the posts that occurred over the last several years on this forum by myself and other people in the exodus.

    And look at threads like this.

    I sorta came back half way, mostly because I sit in front of computers all day and also spend a lot of time in airports recently.

    Probably a silly idea.

    (Can't wait for v2.1)
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2008
  7. newblack

    newblack エピクフェイル

    Maybe. You English people all look that same to me, too...

  8. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

    Aren't people in exodus or exiled usually gone?

    As I pointed out earlier if you look at ALL the recent threads on the Ninjutsu forum there is only really 1 active one with this kind of debate going on. So it is not as if every discussion is being disrupted despite what people claim.

    Also, if you have no intention to contribute to MAP anymore, why post? why read? To simply voice your disdain? Is that not similar to trolling?
  9. Kikaku

    Kikaku Gakorai Tosha Akuma Fudo

    My respect for you just went through the roof. :cool:
  10. Decision Tree

    Decision Tree Valued Member

    Kikaku - You're pretty insulting. Honestly, i'll say this again becasue you obviusly didn't hear me last time. If you spoke to people like that outside of an internet forum, you're going to need all the training you can get.

    Steve K's point about being chained to a radiator, with snipers aiming at you etc is exactly the same point about being under a 20 stone man, with broken arms and legs etc... Don't ask what Bujinkan technique would you use to get out of that! There wouldn't be an answer from any MA training. If you let yourself get into an impossible situation, dont expect to use your martial arts training or 'The Magical TM' technique to get out of it. You should have used your martial arts training BEFORE you got there.

    There is a difference however between being in an impossible posistion (lets say the gangsters have you tied to a chair with tape round your eyes, you're drugged and cuffed and a chainsaw is falling from 6 flights of stairs onto your head) to being a little behind the curve (eg, you have been hit from behind but not all is lost.)

    The 'what would you do in this situation' discussion is worthless becasue circumstances differ everytime.

    Watermellon Crew - HO!!!!!
  11. Kikaku

    Kikaku Gakorai Tosha Akuma Fudo

    Why should I talk to you any differently? Respect is earned, not demanded. So now that I've heard it again from you, I'll simply point out that I won't be losing any sleep over it.

    If you’re too defensive, narrow minded, arrogant and insecure to try and see any kind of merit or insight in what I’m trying to say and if you simply view it as insulting diatribe, then this is a waste of time. You obviously have so much more insightful and enthralling topics on hand to discuss, so I’ll leave you to it.

    Small things amuse small minds.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2008
  12. Decision Tree

    Decision Tree Valued Member

    I work in a field that is 90% relationships. The remaining bit involves some numbers that are far less important. I do not assume someone is an a$$hole until they prove otherwise. How far would I get like that? I respect someone to a certain extent until they show that what i'm giving is unjustified. It's rare that I decide someone deserves to be spoken to in a way you are obvously (too?) comfortable with.

    I'm sure you have something valuable to say on this forum (you are an active member of the Bujinkan and also train in MT and BJJ, which offers you a different perspective than many of us have,) thats why i've continued speaking with you and even spoken with you on private messenger.

    Your delivery of the 'valuable points' you have to make is the biggest hurdle I (and probably the other members of this forum) have trouble with. When you're trying to offer an alternative opinion, of course you're going to come up against familiar statements of long held beliefs. Beliefs you might have also held once. Those beliefs are there for a reason and shouldn't be dismissed by you in the same way you don't want your opinions dismissed.

    If the truth of it is that you do not respect the martial ability of anyone who just trains in the Bujinkan and does not cross train or incorporate other arts, then you should just say that and stand by that opinion. Thats the opinion that comes across to me from our discussion.
  13. Decision Tree

    Decision Tree Valued Member

    CKava - Is that the opinion you have?
  14. Kikaku

    Kikaku Gakorai Tosha Akuma Fudo

    The Samaritans? ;)

    My answer to that is in bold. You said it for me ^

    As for the rest of what you said, I’m actually inclined to agree with you. But do you actually feel it’s worth our time dwelling on conduct, political correctness and insecurity?
  15. Decision Tree

    Decision Tree Valued Member

    Kikaku - is this accurate of the opinion you hold?
  16. Kikaku

    Kikaku Gakorai Tosha Akuma Fudo

  17. Arashima

    Arashima Banned Banned

    Right then, Pikachu and Conclusion Bush or whatever your names are, and everyone else, stop typing and let's get this pointless thread deleted.

    What is ninjutsu? Historically it is a collection of skills involving espionage and unconventional warfare. Today it is generic dumb-down nomenclature for martial arts schools practiced separately or under the umbrella of organisations who base their art on ninpo taijutsu or budo taijutsu. Apart from the martial arts aspects, today's ninjutsu has not much in common with the historical version and most gaijin don't understand today's Japanese culture, let alone that of 500 years ago.

    If, like the OP, you require structure and a fairly firmly adhered to syllabus, stick with the Genbukan and Jinenkan, and if you want the whole thing to fit in the same pigeon hole as more modern arts with sparring etc, either try to find the rare dojos that do it, or study something else, but if you feel that being kept in the dark keeps your feet on the ground and prefer Dali and Picasso's expression of art to Constable or Turner's then go with the Bujinkan but remember, just because you like Chinese Takeaway doesn't mean that you'll like what comes out of every Chinese Takeaway's kitchen.
  18. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

    Nope. I suspect there is too great of a variety to make sweeping generalisations about the martial ability of all Ninjutsu practitioners... too many variables.

    I would however say that my general opinion on martial arts is that I am in favour of cross training and incorporating plenty of sparring/resistance training AND that from limited internet exposure it seems like compliant drills and a somewhat insular mentality is a little too widespread for my liking amongst Ninjutsu. However, I do not believe that such drills reflect the totality of Ninjutsu training or that such a mentality is possesed by all Ninjutsu practitioners.

    Since you asked :D.

    My opinion is the same however about Kikaku's tone. I remember reading his comments back from when he first visited a BJJ club and I think if he was reading his own thread with his current attitude he would be insulting himself.
  19. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

    Bravo Arashima!
  20. Kikaku

    Kikaku Gakorai Tosha Akuma Fudo

    That is so weird that you mentioned that! I was actually about to dig that thread up and post the link here, to prove a point.

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