What is Ninjutsu?

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by The Force, Nov 12, 2008.

  1. The Force

    The Force Valued Member

    Thank you very much Kikaku! yeah..:woo:

    [ame="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wEXR8MML4uU&feature=related"]YouTube - ganseki nage[/ame]

    Last edited: Nov 13, 2008
  2. garth

    garth Valued Member

    Kikaku posted
    Could not agree more

  3. NZ Ninja

    NZ Ninja Live wire.


    Or dont have the experience in being in real combat against a real attacker intent on hurting them.


    And thats pretty much bullseye.
  4. skuggvarg

    skuggvarg Valued Member


    Dont you recognize him (the force) ? I´m pretty sure it is our little troll who allready got banned twice (or is it 3 times). If not he is at least out to do the same thing, critizise the Bujinkan without any special knowledge except from what he collected on youtube.

    The last youtube video clearly shows that he doesnt understand the most fundamental aspects of japanese budo, or any other budo for that part. It is also somewhat ironic and funny that the uke in the first youtube video is Nakadai sensei and that he chose an INSTRUCTIONAL VIDEO for reference to lack of aliveness... ha ha ha ha!

    Regards / Skuggvarg
  5. Arashima

    Arashima Banned Banned

    I stand by my original post.

    A question was asked and we have the choice whether to reply or not.

    I was accused of getting on my high horse the other day and there seem to be a lot of other people doing the same thing whilst relying on the fact that although it is a long fall from a high horse, this is only the internet and nobody is going to fall anywhere in this particular discussion.

    The only winner is likely to be Bullshido, which will probably have another member by the end of the week.

    Try to answer novices' questions in a way they will maybe start to understand, rather than displaying what might be deemed arrogance.

    God may try to explain himself to us and we may try to explain ourselves to an ant, but if one cannot understand the other there will be no communication worth having.

    I see The Force's anger and frustration as a negative energy which could be turned into positive energy with a little bit of guidance. I'd rather deal with the likes of him than the usual floppy lethargic sheep students.
  6. Kikaku

    Kikaku Gakorai Tosha Akuma Fudo

    He's not a troll, I can vouch for him in that he trains at my former Bujinkan dojo. Let's take our blinders off for a second, he's bringing up valid points, which should be addressed and he shouldn't be given the stock cliches "You don't get it" or "You've not been training long enough, to warrant an opinion" or "We don't train like that at my dojo".
  7. The Force

    The Force Valued Member

    Thank you, I am not a sheep. I am curious and I need to know what is going on that's all.

    And to skuggvarg, I never got banned. I changed my username only once, why? Because when I had doubts about Ninjutsu I got flamed, harshly by people like you, being a newcomer I felt offended, I felt like I did something wrong and my questions would not be looked at anymore. But that was, this is now and I see clearly. I don't care anymore.

    It's funny how when I ask about Ninjutsu in other subforums, I get flamed for Ninjutsu being crappy. And when I come in the Ninjutsu forum itself to ask, the plate is reversed.. that I suck now.

    Yes I train in the dojo Kikaku trained in, so keep your assumptions outside, all I see is excape, once you judge someone, the rest of the sheep follow, then a member is labeled and whatever he says then will be ignored. So am I going to change my username and ask my doubts? No, who cares think of me as you like, I am the one laughing.
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2008
  8. Hayseed

    Hayseed Thread Killer


    I guess then it's safe to say that you already firmly made up your mind. Thanks for acting like you had anything close to an open mind. You want sparring? Go elsewhere. It's pretty simple.

    You cry flame and foul but the substance posts in response to your questions I thought were very well thought out. Many gave you a thumbs up for taking the time to express yourself so clearly. Why such derision all of the sudden?

    I think it's pretty safe to say you won't get an answer that will satisfy you.

    Posting videos of an obvious demonstration of a technique in it's simplest forms and calling it crap because it's not sparring is short sighted, narrow minded, and downright rude.

    Sparring is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less. It's not shinken gata and it never will be. To act as if sparring is the end all be all of martial existence is the most annoying part of MA these days.

    We, for the most part, do randori, which by it's very structure is play-acting or Larping if you prefer. You can act like it's the most terrible practice there is, but I see value in it, so I practice it. It's fine if you don't respect that, but if that's the case, go elsewhere.

    Sparring is great for fitness, striking practice, competition, and many others. All will help you defend yourself IRL. Where I personally feel it falls short, and where randori picks up is the lack of commitment all around.

    Lack of commited attacks,i.e. jabs & feints all over the place, primarily, I think, because of fear. Understandable, but in real life, when you really need to protect yourself(I'm not talking about bar brawls), your attackers aren't going to half commit, they come fast, hard, and full on. Many techniques and principles in Bujinkan methodology, don't really work without that kind of commitment. So for me, sparring leaves more than a bit to be desired.

    Too deadly to spar? I don't remember reading that in this thread. Please focus on the discussion at hand as none of us can be held accountable for what has been said by others.

    Dangerous at full speed/intent? Absolutely, especially when the focus isn't on performing omote gyaku, but performing omote gyaku at the moment your opponent comes in hard with the intent of hurting you so that his own forward momentum magnifies the stress on the joint exponentially within the span of a snapshot. Yes, it's easy to get hurt.

    So, for me, randori is a much better place for that. If you want to call it Larping, hey fine by me, it's what I prefer, and I have my reasons, all logical. I was more than willing to have a discussion with you about it before you decided to remove what excellent credibility you had with this subsequent post filled with ninjerbashing.

    If you'd like to continue this discussion, feel free to apologize, and I will be glad to. If not, you know where the Muay Thai sub-forum is.

    Merry Christmas
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2008
  9. The Force

    The Force Valued Member

    Apologize? Haha, there comes grandpa now about the video I posted, I didn't criticise because it wasn't sparring, I criticised because the technique was unrealistic, I thought that was clear enough for you to understand.. but no. And you want apology, funny.. and I didn't call anything crap, did I? No, I said others call it crap when I had doubts, but when I come here, I need to apologize? Dude.. well I'll see if others got something to say about your post.

    Edit: Oh and about me acting like I have an open mind, no no that I don't act, I really do have an open mind.
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2008
  10. Kikaku

    Kikaku Gakorai Tosha Akuma Fudo

    At what point does he show that he doesn't have an open mind?

    I think for the most part he was calling it un-realistic, which let's be honest...it is.

    You fight as you train. Sparring is a reflection of how you will respond in an actual altercation. So it's as close as real as you can get..end of story.

    So you're basically saying it's rudundant?

    I had to read this twice. Are you sure you want to stand by this statement?

    This has been brought up on multiple occasions. Especially from nose-bleed ranks who will remain nameless.

    I'm sure he'll get over it.

    Are you for real!? Who do you think you are?
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2008
  11. Hayseed

    Hayseed Thread Killer

    An open minded person would've given me the benefit of the doubt as to whether I was trying to be rude after my earlier posts in this thread.
  12. The Force

    The Force Valued Member

    Check this out:

    [ame="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ke6PFO1uypg&feature=related"]YouTube - Soke Masaaki Hatsumi - Koku[/ame]

    If I watch this and feel wow that is so unrealistic. I am rude? Narrow minded? Perhaps its demonstration is so bad that it becomes a bad teacher for me, because it looks like I need to study rocket science before I speak about this video if I don't want to be called rude, narrow minded, short sighted and required to apologize.
  13. The Force

    The Force Valued Member

    I wasn't talking to you mister, I did say ( incase you didn't read ) that ,"to those who replied to my questions thank you very much, I will read them again." Did I not?
  14. Kikaku

    Kikaku Gakorai Tosha Akuma Fudo

    And if your sister had been born a boy, she'd have been your brother :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2008
  15. Hayseed

    Hayseed Thread Killer

    No, it is unrealistic, but it's incredibly rude and narrow minded to lump me in with a video made 30 yrs ago by a guy that admits he didn't truly understand at the time. Trust me bud, I hate that video and similar. As far as apologies go, you aren't "required" to do anything, but I would appreciate it all the same.

    Until your tone changes from"You ninjas are full of suck and fail" to "thank you for taking the time to have this discussion with me, but I disagree" I can't see why anyone here would want to take part in this thread any further. You keep speaking as if the people in this forum, are everyone in the Bujinkan. We're not.

    We are not Ninjutsu. We're human beings on a forum whose attention you asked for, many of us are very respectful people. Many of us are also very tired of this tone spewed through every thread in here.
  16. Hayseed

    Hayseed Thread Killer

    Care to elaborate?
  17. Kikaku

    Kikaku Gakorai Tosha Akuma Fudo

    Do I really have to? Well I was mocking you in jest, in the sense that you’re resorting to whiney PC diatribe, over the fact that you got your feelings hurt.
  18. Hayseed

    Hayseed Thread Killer

    No feelings hurt at all, just tired of every thread here being an argument. Last I checked this is a discussion forum. How many discussions have you had in real life using that tone that yielded anything useful.

    Thanks for explaining, I can be dense from time to time.
  19. The Force

    The Force Valued Member

    Incredibly rude? Like incredible the Incredible Hulk kind of incredible? Incredibly narrow minded? Like incredible the Incredible Hulk kind of incredible?Wow.. I must be so bad, yes sir, I will not speak like that ever again sir, you are right sir *bows*... wait.. *bows*..yes.. hang on *bows*... omg *bows* ok that should do it.. no no wait *bows*

    Lump? Lump? Lol you considered it so? Trust me it wasn't, don't be concerned. And like I said you weren't even in the list of who I was speaking to. You gave me a kind reply at first and like I said later I would read again as I thanked you and others who gave kind replies.

    But now Mr.Hay hay hayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy my tone is fine, I didn't say Ninjutsu sucks, as I already stated in my first post, I said I didn't mean that Ninjutsu is bad, I just didn't understand. Bullshido supported me, they said I am enlightened. And many other Ninjutsu black belts ending up frustrated themselves, still it does not mean Ninjutsu is bad and I won't conclude it that way, or else I wouldn't come here to ask, as I said, I'm not a sheep unless I feel it in my heart I should walk out. But why is this so common? What is wrong? And when I ask here wow a war once again, this thread is done and I don't care how many years was this video or that video was done, even Hatsumi himself is unrealistic, no no not 30 years ago but every single video, nevermind.

    And funny you should say you guys are not Ninjutsu, an art is only alive when it is within us.. through our expression, it is not something seperate that we look at as a solid body and try to follow and understand. It started with man, it ends with him. I am not satisfied but Oh, thank you for taking the time to have this discussion with me, but I disagree.:)
  20. Kikaku

    Kikaku Gakorai Tosha Akuma Fudo

    <removed>. It’s funny how you’re taking the moral high ground and adopting the stance that every question that goes against your beliefs is some kind of personal vendetta again the organization as a whole. This stems from insecurity and I’ll remind you that you chose to enter this topic (which he started) and his opinion differs from yours. So drop the attitude that he should bow down <removed>, because you felt compelled to share your opinion.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 13, 2008

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