What is MMA?

Discussion in 'MMA' started by Bruce W Sims, Aug 8, 2012.

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  1. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    OK....first off thanks for the follow-up clip. That sort of thing is very helpful.

    Now I would like to comment on a couple of things I have noticed in reviewing various posts.

    a.) Lets address this matter of my having some hidden or nefarious agenda. The fact is that my interest in MMA is most probably only from an academic POV. MMA is almost unbiquitous to this Forum, but almost always from the POV of antagonism and conflict. An actual discussion comparing sound training regimes, organization, structure and goals is rare. Often the sense that I get is that noone makes demands for detailed information and that most of the MMA advocates usually focus the discussion on discounting OTHER peoples views rather than elaborating on their own.

    b.) I am not interested in debate. Let me sat that again. I AM NOT intersted in debate. If your thought is that I am you are mistaken. I think I have made this perfectly clear a few times but people may not be READING my posts; perhaps only skimming them. I am NOT interested in debate. You don't have anything to prove to me in terms of "better", "best" or "worthless".

    c.) In my humble experience discussing MA on a variety of forums over the years, I have found that people who have the least to contribute to a productive discussion usually are the ones who fall to quips, criticism and antagonism. They gravitate towards the "flame wars" and "car wrecks" and don't have much interest in using their brains to examine or inform.
    Too boring, I guess.

    d.) My own view is that MMA as it is represented here, is rather "Soul-less". My intuition, however, is pretty good, and my intuition tells me that there is a lot more to MMA than what I have seen on this Forum so far. I think, like BULLSHIDO, here on MAP the people who have productive things to share are often overshadowed by the "big mouths". I remember, clearly, one person on BULLSHIDO who stated quite candidly that the only reason he came to that forum was to stir something up. Color me "not impressed".

    Now....where to from here?

    Best Wishes,

    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
  2. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    soul-less...lord why does anyone bother
  3. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Ilike your post and the fact that it points up something I, and a number of other people, have worked to make clear on a number of occassions. Like MMA any other MA must be experienced if one is going to find a good fit. This is the single most important reason for sticking with something for a while instead of changing every few months. I can easily imagine that a person training for MMA would only just be getting past the "sore body newbie stage after the first few months. Certainly not long enough to give it a sound trial, right?

    Best Wishes,

  4. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    have you even checked out the MMA section of the site?
    or the personal training logs of those involved in MMA?
    or the advice section of the health and fitness/weight training section?

    most threads in the MMA section, BJJ section and health and fitness section are dedicated to exactly this.
    you have no point other than it seems that way to you because you havent got involved in those sections and read what people say.

    heres some threads recent threads on the MMA section:
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
  5. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    The problem is that rather than ask simple questions you've made some odd complaints and used a lot of language coloured with emotive baggage. If you ask simple questions in an open manner then you'll get the answers you're after, if you post long lectures full of your own (authoritatively stated) opinions (which appear to be based on having seen a couple of MMA fights one time) then there's a good chance that you'll get people's backs up.
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
  6. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Excuse me....aybe you don't appreciate the implications of that term.

    If what you are doing----thats ANY ACTIVITY--- has no "Soul".... no actual Purpose.....the activity is just empty motion. There is a reason that highly accomplished Boxers are referred to as "warriors", since their performance addresses a much greater Purpose than just conflict.

    If the MMA roots are to be believed, looking at something like TUDO VALE tells me that MMA competitions don't have much more Purpose than simple fighting. OTOH a performance by Sugar Ray Leonard over a range of opponents conducted over a number of years tells me that his advocacy of a more technical approach to Boxing was validated in his career. Someone want to make a case for MMA accomplishing a similar resolution? The Purpose for competition of any sort is to allow enough time for an individual to make a person statement about their relationship to a challenge. Well and good. I don't see anything in MMA beyond simple "Win" & "Lose".
    Thats not enough for me.

    Best Wishes,

  7. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I literally have no idea what you are on about.
    I don't think anything we can say can touch your thoughts.
  8. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Bruce, here's where I think you need to step up a bit and do the work. What is it that prevents MMA from occupying that same purpose as you credit to boxing? Both are competitive combat athletics. So, for this to be a fair assessment, I think you need to identify precisely what prevents MMA (in your opinion) from achieving the level of "warriorship" that boxing does.

    And, once again, I'd reiterate that doing so might require that you actually expose yourself to more MMA.

    Note that NONE of this is actually required. You're not obliged to like MMA. But, if you're seriously involved in inquiry about MMA, it seems obvious to start with watching more of it.
  9. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    I think this is unfair Bruce. You kind of admit you don't watch it, so how can you know about the fighters, the challenges etc.
    I watch guys like Anderson Silva, Lyoto Machida, Jon Jones (some of my faves) and am blown away by their skills and dedication etc.

    You talk about "technical approach" and Sugar Ray Leanord - one of my favourite boxers too. Just watch some of these guys and you'll find your, and I quote: "case for MMA accomplishing a similar resolution?" That, or it will find you, one of the two.
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
  10. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    OK, I'll take a shot at this.

    Sound training regimes are based on solid conditioning, skills drills and then some sort of rolling. My background is primarily grappling so I'll stick to that.

    The way to improve skills and technique is through using said skill against a wide variety of training partners. Lower levels give me the chance to really focus on the technique and do it smoothly and with a minimum of strength. Higher levels force me to learn how to use the technique when things are not going so smoothly and how to transition or flow to something else when it isn't working.

    Rolling also give me the opportunity to work on balance and feeling another persons movements in as close to live situation as possible. It gives me the chance to feel being in a really bad position and learn how to survive if not escape. It also teaches patience and waiting for the proper time to initiate a movement rather than trying to force it.

    Drills give me the chance to work a technique with minimum or controlled resistance. Where I can focus on the technique rather than how my training partner is reacting to it.

    You learn different but complementary skills with both drills and rolling.

    Organization structures are for the most part meaningless. I really don't care what my lineage is as long as I am training with someone who has a proven competition record. Also with grappling at least I don't care where the technique came from. I have never heard anyone on the mats say that's not the way we do it. Most of the time you hear, wow, that was cool, show me how you did that.

    The goals are simple. To become a better grappler. I'm sure with some advancing up the belt ladder is important as well but since I am primarily a submission grappler belts don't mean much to me.

    The biggest difference I have seen between MMA and TMA is the attitudes of those who train. I don't really care what level or belt you are because I may learn from anyone and because of the varied styles and background of grapplers I have found myself teaching things to purple belts and learning stuff from white belts.

    I have found that there is much less hierarchy and artificial politeness in an MMA school. I have no need to bow to someone just because they have a higher belt or have been training longer than me. It's hard to have a big head when some newbie comes in and bounces you across the mat with ease. The fact that he was an NCAA wrestler didn't hurt either. :)

    Even the hobbiests have a train hard attitude or they don't last long.

    I hope that helps.
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
  11. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    OK. It's pretty simple really. Ready?

    OTOH a performance by George St Pierre over a range of opponents conducted over a number of years tells me that his advocacy of a more technical approach to MMA was validated in his career.

    Suit ya?

    This thread is more a product of your overly romanticised view of Boxing and other martial arts rather than anything inherently soul-less (whatever that means) about MMA.
    Actual preponents of Boxing and MMA (aside from a few entrenched or ignorant idiots) don't have the same MMA/Boxing divide or disdain that you do.
    Freddie Roach teaches all sorts of MMA people to use their hands better.
    A few boxers have crossed into MMA and vice versa (although not many).
    A "warrior" with soul from boxing had a go in the UFC against the (supposedly) non-warrior of Randy Couture. Check it out to see how well having a "soul" worked out for him. :)
  12. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Who cares? seriously 11 pages and you still arent understanding what people are saying and are still repeating the same rubbish, so who really cares past this point? Not me thats for sure and why anyone is seriously replying to you still is beyond me.

    Oh and by the way putting best wishes at the end of countless insulting e-mails doesnt make it any better
  13. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    thoughts on the video?
  14. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    Bruce, as a former Marine and someone who has trained TMA and MMA I find the MMA approach much closer to the way that real warriors train.

    And as for a purpose, my purpose was to get in shape, learn new skills, improve and have fun.
  15. Bigmikey

    Bigmikey Internet Pacifist.

    I've learned more about MMA in these posts and the links provided than I ever thought I'd know! I think in terms of sheer informative content this thread has to rate pretty freakin high.

    God knows it BETTER after 12 flippin pages!
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
  16. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    time to unsubscribe me thinks.

    he still hasnt got that MMA isnt a style but a ruleset.
    and that fighting is it's purpose. just as fighting is the purpose of boxing, kali or any MA.
  17. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    He's also failed to grasp that being rude and refusing to debate is generally considered trolling.
  18. TakadaDojoKeith

    TakadaDojoKeith Valued Member

    Honestly, it sounds like you got three different things going at once. 1.) You want a good general definition/explanation of what MMA is. 2.) You don't like how MMA guys talk down to non-MMA guys sometimes, and 3.) You want to find something in MMA as meaningful to you as what you've found in a traditional martial art.

    As for 1.), these guys are doing a pretty good job of explaining and defining MMA. The only thing I'd add is that there are lots of different rule sets that could reasonably called MMA, but the unified rules are generally what people call MMA.

    About 2.), I know that MMA/TMA discussions can sometimes devolve into something like debunkers challenging psychics. But I don't think that's what's going on here.

    And 3.), I don't think you're going to find anything in MMA that fills the same space in you that a TMA will. Not many TMA guys do. But for MMA guys like me, I think it's worth a try. I'd say that's what I've been doing for years. In fact, I imagine a lot of MMA guys have shaped their martial arts learning and fight experience into a meaningful world view. If meaning in MMA is what you want to talk about, maybe you need another thread. :)
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
  19. Bigmikey

    Bigmikey Internet Pacifist.

    I think with a little editing the content of this thread could rate a sticky titled "what is MMA - for Laymen". I mean, think about how much time it would have taken for a single person to gather and enter the amount of information in this thread? *I* wouldnt want to do it, lol... It would be a shame if it got lost on the third or fourth page some day...
  20. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    I wonder... lets ask callsign if he timed himself :D
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