Hi all, This may sound like a daft question, but since I have been following all the various different threads, with respect to a new KS association, or Hwrang Do, and reading post by people like Bruce, and Pugil and Unknown KJN, and Hyeongsa and many others who all have seemingly significant amounts of knowledge of Korea MAs and other MAs, gained from man years of hard work and study (and I name only a few of the people who contribute with significant amounts of Knowledge so please forgive me if I haven't mentioned you specifically ), I am now beginning to wonder what it is I am actually studying. :dunno: It sounds stupid, but through these forums (fora?? :dunno I am seeing that there are many people who study Korean Martial Arts under different names such as Hapkido, Hwrang Do etc, who all seem to have similar names if not identical names for forms, such as Ki Cho Hyung, or Cho Gup Hyung, and the same sets of techniques, such as Dan Do Maki, or whatever, however they are all slightly different, but similar enough to see that there is a common ancestor. It is sort of like listening to Geordie, then a Glaswegian, then a Dundonian, then a Scouser then a Cockney, and seeing that they are all speaking English, but not quite the same way. It would also appear that the Hyung and the Techniques have changed over the years in KSW, and other "KS based" (and please forgive me phrasing it that way; no insult intended to any other Korean martial arts such as Hapkido etc). Therefore, if it has changed (and it would appear not to just be KSW that has changed them) how are they "authentic" dating back to when Adam was a Lad, or weren't they authentic when they were started and arev the "mistakes" being "ironed out"? At the end of the day, I am more than happy studying what it is that I am studying in KSW, and have some really good training partners and teachers and Master over here to learn KSW from and with. But it does make me wonder a bit, just out of curiosity I suppose. So.... What is Kuk Sool? Is there a common ancestor, and if so what is it? How much of what is called Kuk Sool (or whatever the different "accents" are called) is actually Korean? (With respect to this question, some may ask "who cares?" but others may be more interested, and certainly it is a passing interest point to me, with one eye on my love of history.) As always your insights are most welcome and al the very best to you all. Quozl
Daitoryu Aikijujutsu, Mantis and Long Fist Chuan Fa, and throw in perhaps some Ship Pal Ki. There is also surely some resurrected material, based on verbal and written (such as the mu ye dobo tongji) records of Korea's past. . . . . . . . . . . . . . *Waits for the flying side kicks to the face* In all seriousness, ALOT of Kuk Sool looks ALOT like various forms of Chinese Boxing mixed with Daitoryu. That's not a bad thing, at all. In fact Kuk Sool has turned out to be a very well rounded, complete, and beautiful art in its own right...The line between *authentic* Korean practices, and those of other cultures is often very fine. The shifting borders, and cultural trade over hundreds of years, had blurred and solid line of distinction. To me, the indomitable spirit that has forged hyundae hankuk mudo (modern Korean martial arts) is what uniquely defines them as "Korean" practices. The Korean people have been incredibly adept at taking the most adverse of circumstances (note: the Japanese occupation, and cultural genocide) and turning them around to their favor, and prospering in doing so. They took advantage of all the resources they could get their hands on, and pooled them together with a unique Korean flair, truly making these things their own.
Intersting question Qozi. I don't know the answer though I am sure many will try to answer it. Is it not a bit like asking "how much of the english language is actualy english"? The answer to that of course, is not very much at all. But after time, do all the different influences become "english" after all? I once heard a (korean) martial arts Master say that any martial art taught in Korea was Korean Martial Art, but that if it was taught in England it was English Martial Art (or should that have been British?)
Yeah... pretty much what kidosool said. In fact, I suspect an attempt at being transparent about such things can be seen on the KSGA website (excerpt below). Here's a link to the page in question: What do the words “Kuk·Sool” actually mean?
Thanks for these replies gents. OTL, interesting to see where a lot of the KS material appears to have come from, and I have to agree with what you say about the blend actually being a good art. I do enjoy KS and whatever the origins it is, as you say, "a very well rounded, complete, and beautiful art in its own right ...". Kiwest I think reinforces the blend with the reference to the English Language (by the way I truly enjoy looking at English and other languages and seeing where the origins of the words all come from ... shame I am not very good at languages then!). What I am sort of looking for now is why there are the differences between the forms and techniques practiced by, say KSW, practitioners and say Hwa Rang Do practitioners (both have at least Gum Moo Hyung in common that I am aware of) and, even in KSW, the forms and techniques have changed over the years. So why has this happened if, say, Gum Moo Hyung is an "ancient sowrd form" there must have been one recognised way of doing it in the past and now there are maybe several? I suppose I can see that somebody A taught people B, C, D, and E a Hyung or a set of techniques and over the years B did them one way, C another, D a third way and E a fourth, possibly due to natural ability, possibly because they believed that their way was better etc, etc etc. (I can see this in other martial arts). What I suppose then happens is that B, C, D and E all teach their students their diffferent way of doing things and hence the Hyung and the techniques are all called the same thing but are all slightly different (a bit like my Geordie vs Weegie vs Dundonian, vs Scouse analogy before). I suppose it doesn't really matter why things like this happen, but I cannot help but wonder if all the various arts previously mentioned are "Kuk Sool based" for want of a better terminology, if they all have different ways of dong the same form, how could they then be "unified" and "codified" in a new KS Association? Not that it is insummountable for those who want to do this I suupose, but knowing from whence the original came from, would probably go a long way towards helping those who want to do this find the "true" XYZ Hyung or the "true" ABC Techniques. However I suspect that this is quite a tricky task to perform .... just thninking "out loud" I suppose.. Just a musing but hopefully somebody can help piece these pisces of the jigsaw together. Thanks guys. Quozl.
I'm gonna run with that tangent for just a sec, as I can't believe I never noticed this before: Our friend Out-to-Lunch (aka: kidosool) is quite knowledgeable WRT korean idioms, etc. and it just occurred to me that the shortcut for his newer screen name (i.e. OTL) when written in caps, is an asian (and specifically korean) emoticon depicting a man who is prostrate (facing left, rather than the one on MAP which faces right :hail. Whether intentional or not, kidosool, my hat's off to you. :bow1: O.K., I'm done. Enough with the off-topic nonsense... :topic:
I'll film and post our Gum Moo Hyung, and you'll see that like our Baek Pal Gi, it's recognizable as the same form as KSW's. Hwarang do does have a Gum Moo too, though, and yeah, it's out there, it's not like those of the Kuk Sools at all. I said that I would go and ask Lee Joo Bang about things like that (Christ, the guy lives like 15 minutes from me) and I still need to.
Many thanks MasterD. I look forward with interest to seeing your Gum Moo Hyung when you post it, and also to reading what you find out from (Master?) Lee Joo Bang. Many thanks, and all the very best. Quozl
