Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by alister, Dec 1, 2005.
If he was smart, he would figure out what internal really means.!
Cool shirt for martial arts!
I think martial arts are important in order to teach discipline and self defense. Link removed.
Welcome to MAP. I'm afraid we don't allow links back to personal sites and we don't permit advertising.
As a new member I believe I just proved the existence of Qi (both internal and external, self and others) over in the General discussion board under the "Internal Qi" thread.
Can I have my money now?
I read it
Is that because you actually believe that there is mystical body aurora energy floating around?
Or aren't willing to pony up the money for a logical realistic application of the concept of Qi?
Or do I have to bend a spoon with my mind or go yogi floating?
'Cause the first only happens on those rare nights in the local pub when I mix my merriments and the third only happens when I pass out latter.
No its because none of what you described is even remotely applicable to CMA definitions of chi at any level and the "rub your head" analogy was actually just silly
Still a hearty "No" on the prize because you just moved the goalposts
I actually wasn't working from a Chinese MA view point but a Japanese healing based platform applied to the common, real, and modern world's martial needs.
The rubbing your head analogy is silly, but you know you've done it. But so is the mystical crap you want others to prove.
And you moved the goal post, I kicked straight.
Anyways, I like your no nonsense style, I'll settle for a beer the next time the Canadian Freestyle Championships are held in Calgary.
PS: my examples are exactly the definitions of internal Ki arts - ea: self healing and health preservation, and external Ki arts, used to injure and disrupt your opponent
Welcome to MAP Big Blue Bear! Please keep in mind the Terms of Service regarding profanity as you join our conversations here. You can find the TOS in a bar near the top on the right side.
My apologies, I didn't think initials, common non-vulgar word alternatives and correct usage of words was a violation in any way.
I assumed the normal naughty words were barred, I will address all with kid glove kindness and the best PCness.
By your definition, I could prove a knife is Ki, since a knife is used in surgeries to heal and a knife can be used to kill people.
To me, the existence of Ki has been proven for thousands of years... but we have done wonders to disprove it. Particularly with the mindset of cause and effect.
IMHO, Ki is not the cause and effect that people try to use to prove or disprove its existence. Ki is an element like air and water. Ki is breath, but I don't mean the act of breathing but how the breath flows through the body. Ki is your breath flowing through your body in the blood.
When blood flow is blocked, you swell up. Restoring the proper blood flow helps remedy the swelling. When you need strength, you need blood flow to the area to sustain it. I could go on about how important the flow of blood is, but I hope you get what I'm talking about.
Some say Ki causes heat, well the blood is what transfers heat through the body from internal to external. Some say Ki is associated with electricity, well red blood cells that carry the oxygen have iron in them. Electric fields can disrupt blood flow.
The cause and effect is not the Ki but is manipulation of Ki (blood flow), in yourself or others. This can be done with physical and psychological means.
Yes, physical and psychological means that are not some mystical power. Methods probably doctors already know about that can cause a change in the heart beat rate and the way the blood flows. Like being calm under pressure, being alert, and things like massage.
A knife does not exist in a living breathing form. Yet it can have a spirit or a soul.
I would not say Ki is an element, but would say it is influenced and influences the 5 elements. But don't tell Hannibal I said that, cause I am sure those concepts would send him over the edge.
Otherwise, we see Ki pretty much the same way.
No it would be akin to referencing humors in a medical text
You have proven nothing except an ability to use archaic and unhelpful terminology to explain things that are already explained much better using convetional and CONTEMPORARY terms
I didn't say Ki was one of the five elements. You said you were using the Japanese model for Ki. From my understanding there are more than five elements. The five are the major ones, but this does not mean there aren't others. Ki to me is an element, one of the base elements that is literally tied to life. This is why I say it is the breath as it travels through the body in our blood. As an element it is the structure that holds our breath... I could give an inaccurate example but it makes a point: Ki is what is in the blood plasma inside us. Outside it is the plasma of a star (sun). Yes, I could label Ki as the element of plasma.
Spiritually it is family ties (even DNA) as the saying, "blood is thicker than water."
I think though I'm getting in way over my head though.
I practise Ng Ying Kung Fu and Ng Ying Tai Chi in the Netherlands. I found this topic interesting so i want to share what my teacher shifu Patrick van Steen says about internal arts.
We learn in Ng Ying Tai Chi Chuan that it is not a pure internal martial art because:
We need a physical body to perform a physical form who is standarized by different styles and systems only that is according Patrick van Steen the reason that Tai Chi is not totally internal.
Also when we practise Five Animal Kungfu we expect a development in Mind, Body and Spirit external as internal.
I also think if an art needs a physical form that needs to look in a certain way an art can not be totally internal.
Tai Chi subjects are: Form, Pushing Hands, Qin Na, Sparring, Weapons, Meditaion and more.
If some schools only practise forms and not the rest, they can never be totally internal because they lack the development on the other subjects.
Separate names with a comma.