What is in a name? Confusing the client about krav maga

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Remi Lessore, Jun 13, 2014.

  1. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Would you say having a grading pass of 35% makes it a good or bad test?
     
  2. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

    I put the video link so that people could have some idea of the standard of candidates. The pass mark is an indication that it is a rigourous test. I think that rigourousness is one characteristic of a good test.
    Don't you?
     
  3. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Are instructors though putting students up for the test when they're not ready?

    Rigorousness is fine if your ready for it.

    It's easy to be critical of a video when you only have a few seconds of footage to go by, but the two guys at 2.08 onward in your video just looked like they were flailing and poorly balanced.

    I would argue not particularly vigorous or black belt standard.
     
  4. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    98 % would be rigorous, 35% is slack in comparison.
     
  5. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

    preparedness

    I agree about those two fellows. I don't know whether they passed. But sparring is one module among many. It tests courage and composure and to a lesser extent, technicity. The sparring comes at the end of an intermittent 6 hour exam. The SD will have already have been tested. They may have been slaughtered with tiredness. And they may well have failed.
    As to whether instructors are putting forward unprepared students, the current criterion is that you may grade if you have held the previous grade for a year and have attended classes regularly. Then it is up to the student to decide whether to go for it.
    As the admin fee is a one off and you do not have to repay it if you have to retake the exam many will take the view that it is worth attempting for the experience.
    Furthermore, I remembered that you may fail two modules and retake them a month later. I believe the pass rate for the retakes brings the average up considerably.
    However, an instructor who consistently offers unprepared students will certainly attract attention and words of advice.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2014
  6. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

    Are you talking about the test or preparation?
    To my mind a 98% pass rate looks like communist country election results.
     
  7. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    It depends on how and what being graded really.

    If its on knowing the syllabus without pressure an 70 - 90% passmark should be appropriate.

    If the syllabus is so large or badly structured to make this impossible, then the syllabus should be improved, not the pass mark reduced.

    Whats the point of being a blackbelt/coach if you dont know 65% of the syllabus, that pretty much wrecks the next generations skill levels.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2014
  8. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    What about physically less able people/older people(like Mitch:D)? How are they supposed to pass a "rigorous" test?
     
  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Maybe they shouldnt, or have the syllabus changed for them,
     
  10. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

    syllabus and passmark

    I think we are at cross purposes.
    The point is that those who do not know the syllabus do not get to be black belts until they do know it.

    See my post to Simon previously. I had forgotten the important detail that on the day you may fail 2 modules out of 6 and retake them a month later. So ultimately the pass-rate is higher. The point I was making was that as opposed to the other link where you seemed to get the grade just for turning up, some KM organisations take things more seriously.

    You can view the exam syllabus at:
    http://www.krav-maga.net/en/files/Belt.html
    You can see the whole of the syllabus from yellow belt onwards.
    For the black belt exam, look at the 1st Darga.
    It is considerable but not huge. The emphasis is mainly on technique - particularly sharpness, fluidity and body positioning with a view to application of force.
    I have mistranslated some of it.
    e.g. module 3 a) to e) should read defences against punches and kicks.
    5. Is defences against armed attacks.
    6. Is combat against one opponent.
     
  11. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

    Prime

    I am sure that like me, Mitch is in his prime.
    What are the things that more mature people such as ourselves may need allowances for, apart from easy access to the urinal and a seat on the bus?
    And short term memory.

    and a seat on the bus.

    Well, I find that my hips no longer like side-kicks very much and that my body cannot take as much punishment as it used to.

    So for example, an allowance that can be made is that they are no longer expected to do high side kicks - but the height of the kick is not on the syllabus. It is the effectiveness of the kick that is assessed. A good side kick to ribs or even the knee is more useful than a sloppy one to the neck.

    I snapped the tip of my finger during my last grading. I could no longer make a fist, so I palm-heeled for the next two hours. The examiner knew I was injured and let me continue with reduced mobility in that hand. I passed. (I only found out it was broken when my wife had a humour failure at my cartoon finger and sent me to the hospital when I got home. Wives.) So some technical allowances are made.

    As for the fight and absorption of punishment, over-forties do not fight full contact at the grading. Something to do with less fluid in the skull to absorb knocks and protect the brain.
    The fight is therefore expected to be more technical and controlled.

    Time 5:36 has Gilles Hassine talking about precisely this problem and not penalising older people for their slower movement and reflexes for example. However, that is not an excuse for sloppiness, which is a different matter.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2014
  12. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Very nice, thanks man :)
     
  13. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

     
  14. Dylan9d

    Dylan9d Valued Member

    Im glad the organisation im in doesn't use belts ;)

    Remi the video's you are posting of FEKM exams reminds me of the classes im getting every week twice a week.

    Sorry but i don't find it that special.

    And if you want to convince people of Krav Maga just let them attend a class. I did Silat and Eskrima for 9 years before Krav Maga. And i wont say Krav Maga is better or worse than that because all of those have something i can use for myself.
     
  15. 47MartialMan

    47MartialMan Valued Member

    Except he has Mankinis :D

     
  16. MARBO-man!!!

    MARBO-man!!! Valued Member

     
  17. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

     
  18. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    There was confusion between pass mark and pass rate.

    I believe the 35% figure was the number of candidates who pass first time, not that the threshold for passing was a mark of 35% on the test.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2014

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