what is freedom ?

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by freespirit, Feb 4, 2004.

  1. freespirit

    freespirit spirit of the free

    What is freedom ?, can it be obtained and if it can would we be happy and content or would we still be searching ?

    Could the human race exist in freedom without doubting freedom ?

    :Angel: :D :cool:
     
  2. Shaolin Dragon

    Shaolin Dragon Born again martial artist

    Freedom is our right to do whatever we want. We can never be completely free, as what I want to do may conflict with what you want to do; we can only obtain a measure of freedom for everyone.
     
  3. freespirit

    freespirit spirit of the free

    so freedom is inherrently individual ?
     
  4. TigerAnsTKDLove

    TigerAnsTKDLove Ex-TKD'er 2005.

    freedom is having free will wut god gave us. even if we did have freedom i think we would still be searching.
     
  5. toothpaste100

    toothpaste100 Banned In 60 Seconds

    I feel that what we believe is a natural human desire to be free is really a powerful, hormone driven desire to lead, even if we just want to lead our own lives. If we were all free and could do whatever we want with no establishment, a natural order would still be established because its part of who many of us are to have authority over others and to please those above us by following what they tell us.
     
  6. Shaolin Dragon

    Shaolin Dragon Born again martial artist

    There are two levels of freedom - personal freedom, which is that we CAN do whatever we want, but most of us CHOOSE not to because we do not want to suffer the consequences of those actions, and state freedom, which dictates to us what consequences will be enforced on us for certain actions.
    So we are always free as individuals, but never truely free from the state.
     
  7. nzric

    nzric on lookout for bad guys

    We are all truly free.

    Look at existentialist thought. If you wanted, there's nothing stopping you from stabbing the next person you see, or giving all your posessions to a homeless person, or picking up your monitor, smashing it, then stealing a car/money and driving to the airport, buying a ticket and flying to Istanbul. If an alien was watching you on a monitor right now - some being that had no prior knowledge of human behaviour, it would probably see each event as just as likely as you finishing in the forum, going to bed then waking up in the morning and going to your same job.

    Many people pursue monetary gain as they see that as a way of gaining freedom. But statistics show the most "successful" people, those who are able to retire in their 40s, are so used to one way of living that they can't enjoy the freedom once they have it. They just go back to work and keep on earning even though they don't need the money (look at all the billionaires - that's monetary obesity).

    We all have actual freedom - we only place cultural/personal restrictions on ourselves. How free we perceive ourselves to be depends on how we interpret the lifestyle we've placed ourselves in.
     
  8. Kevan

    Kevan New Member

    For me personally, freedom is attained when I cast aside my doubts and suspicions; when I renounce the vices that seem to bind me into a repetetive cycle. When I create a place within me to transcend fear, I am free. When I feel happy I am free. When I walk naked in the light of the sun, feeling the warm breeze across my back only to plunge into water that is so cold it makes me shiver, I am free. When I allow myself to live in harmony with this (and every other) moment of my life, to feel no resistance, I am free.
    These are simply moments in which I taste what I feel is freedom. I do not think I could live in my state of personal freedom always, because it would lose its definition. There is a balance between being free, and being tethered. Sometimes they seem to me to be one and the same, however. I have freely made choices in the past that have left me tethered emotionally, and with obligations, but in the end the balance was found when that bond ceased to be healthy, and freedom again manifested itself.
    A hard question to answer, and with many left flying through my mind.

    As far as personal choice goes, I agree with 'nzric' in the above post.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2004
  9. Mo Lung

    Mo Lung Hard work!

    Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.
     
  10. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Member

    Here's another, Even assuming we have free will that does not mean we have freedom.

    At best we have partial freedom, some have more then others. ;)
     
  11. nzric

    nzric on lookout for bad guys

    Here's one to ponder - is it human to be free to shape your life to your choosing, to have control over your own destiny, or is it human to sacrifice your own personal/animal freedom to join a community/culture and express your scope of capabilities through those boundaries?

    Put simply - who is more free - Tarzan or a retired billionaire?

    Both are valid definitions of freedom, and I suspect since you can rarely do both, that's probably why people feel restricted in their personal freedom - the definition itself is contradictory.
     
  12. Jack

    Jack Valued Member

    BUMP

    even most people's IDEAS of freedom have likely been limited by their culture! When I think of freedom, I think of having to live by no other needs than food, water, and sleep. So technically, I COULD go a live in some woodland area.
     
  13. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Member

    Freedom of thought and freedom of action are two different things.

    Can't prove freedom of thought either way, no outside observer, etc.

    But freedom of action we have in a limited way, some have more limits then others.

    An interesting point, some people with some sort of mental dissability that causes slow reactions can actually be predicted as to what they are going to think or decide before they even realise it. Don't ask for a reference though cause it's been a while since I read that article.
     
  14. freespirit

    freespirit spirit of the free

    mmmmh interesting
     
  15. Mo Lung

    Mo Lung Hard work!

    Why not?

    Potentially, the billionaire who retired and went to live in the jungle with nothing but a loincloth, a knife and chimp is the free-est of all? He's given up everything that tied him to any rules and now has nothing to control his existence.

    Except perhaps the chimp.
     
  16. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    Freedom is self-reliance. Freedom is not having to do anything you don't want to. Freedom is something you can't be given- you have to take it.
     
  17. nzric

    nzric on lookout for bad guys

    Just for the sake of being difficult... does that mean you think we are not born with freedom? If we are, how/when is it taken away from us? Is it possible to always be free from birth, or do you need to experience restrictions in order to know what freedom is?
     
  18. Mo Lung

    Mo Lung Hard work!

    From birth you are reliant on the breast, on the shelter of your parents, etc. Freedom is something you have to achieve.
     
  19. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Member

    Complete freedom is impossible, we are always limited by our environment.

    Also Freedom of thought is not the same as freedom of action. I might be free to think I can fly, but I can't actually do it.

    Freedom of thought is also restricted, we are conditioned into a way of thinking right from the start.

    Of course event determinism could hold true and we could not really have any sort of freedom.... Or would we?

    Define freedom? Does it require the possibility that I could have acted/thought differently?
     
  20. Yama Tombo

    Yama Tombo Valued Member

    Freedom is hard thing to define, anarchy is as close as it gets to the basic definition.
     

Share This Page