What is a MMAist?

Discussion in 'MMA' started by ICT, Nov 4, 2007.

  1. ICT

    ICT Shaolin Malay Silat

    I have followed this up from a previous post.

    Since there are MMA members on here that consider themselves MMAist but have never fought as of yet, I would like to know what MMA folks think about the following questions:


    1. What makes a person a MMAist?

    2. Does a person have to compete to be a MMAist?

    3. What curriculum do they have to follow to be a MMAist?

    4. To teach MMA do they have to be taught by a "recognized MMAist"?

    5. If they take there 31 years of martial arts training in Boxing, Muay Thai, Judo, JuJitsu, Karate & Kung Fu and make their own curriculum and call it MMA and follow the Standardized Rules used in the UFC is it MMA and if not, what is it and why?

    I ask these question here in the MMA section because in a recent thread on another section I was flamed for saying I teach MMA because I don't compete or teach a "recognized" Instructors MMA curriculum.

    Now if it matters I have worked out with and I'm friends with some Pro MMA fighters (no one famous) and I helped promote & sponsor an MMA event in New Mexico just this year in April.

    So I really want to know from folks that consider themselves MMA'ers what there take is on this?

    Thanks in advance,
    Teacher: Eddie Ivester
     
  2. I'mKira

    I'mKira Banned Banned

    A MISERABLE LITTLE PILE OF SECRETS!
     
  3. I'mKira

    I'mKira Banned Banned

    Extensive training and competition experience in the arts which are used in the MMA ring and that ring itself.

    I don't consider someone qualified to at least teach MMA unless they themselves have racked up several victories in legitimate MMA comps (not underground toughman contests) or have coached people to the same.

    There isn't a set curriculum for MMA any more than there is for boxing. You teach the arts which work in MMA.

    See answer to question 2.

    Since this is clearly about you, no. You don't understand MMA, you've never competed in MMA. What you are doing is the equivalent of a TUF watching fratboy crappling around with his friends in his basement, only you have the gall to charge for it.
     
  4. RentoKill

    RentoKill Valued Member

    Not meaning to in-flame the situation but i consider MMA to be mixed martial arts. I see the entering competitons as part of the whole picture but would not discount someone that trains in MMA not to be a MMA because they do not enter.

    A boxer is still a boxer whether then do not enter contests as long as they train, some people might ebjoy the training and sparing rolling aspects with there training chums but don't want to compete outside of this sphere.

    But thats just my views and i couod be wrong and completly off mark.
     
  5. callsignfuzzy

    callsignfuzzy Is not a number!

    ...a "mixed martial artist"... :D

    They train in mixed martial arts.

    Not necessarily, but here's the thing: the term "Mixed Martial Art" is synonomous with MMA competitions, like the kind found in Pride, UFC, Cage Rage, etc. This is what comes to mind for most people when they hear the term "mixed martial arts", so if someone was to say, at least to me, that he/she was a "mixed martial artist", I would assume that person was at least in training with an eye towards competition, and would probably draw the conclusion that they'd already started to fight. I think this is true for most people.

    MMA, by it's very nature, has no strict, set curriculum. Now we can say that there are some arts in particular that are taught, usually some combination of boxing, kickboxing, Muay Thai, wrestling, BJJ, judo and sambo, but there's really no hard and fast rule here.

    It would be very dubius of they were not. Their credibility would suffer. There are exceptions, like those with a strong kickboxing or BJJ background, but unless they brought in people who were more experienced in their "weak" areas (hiring a boxing coach for a BJJ gym, for example), the students would probably suffer from one-sided training.

    Um... you know, by strict definition I guess it would be MMA. If you're teaching people to fight by the Unified Rules and you're using the training methods that have been proven to produce the best results in the ring/cage, I wouldn't particularly have a problem what the original systems were. However, until the students start producing results at sanctioned MMA events, or related events such as judo, grappling, or kickboxing comps, then I would say that there is some lack of credibility.

    Again, this is all predilected by the assumption that when one says "mixed martial arts" they are refering to MMA competitions. I can accept, to a lesser degree, someone using the same expression for a non-competitive MMA. I mean, to a degree Hapkido, ****o-Ryu karate, and Choy Lay Fut KF are all "mixed martial arts" in that they blend more than one system into a common curriculum, but I doubt they'd be accepted under the MMA umberella by 90% or better of "mixed martial artists".

    Actually, I read that thread, and I think the key issue was that you were making a statement about MMA competitions without ever competing in one yourself. This of course led to people questioning your other creditials, including who your instructors where and what your record was.

    Ultimately, to call it MMA without the intent(?) of producing fighters makes it look misleading. Someone who's looking for "mixed martial arts" training is either a newbie who's come along with the TUF craze, or an experienced MAist who wants to compete in, well, the ultimate fighting sport. At the very least they are expecting separate classes in sport-based grappling and full-contact sport striking, with the possible expectation of combined classes and/or a conditioning class. Not all, but the majority will be looking to compete, or at least test themselves in the gym to see if they're ready to compete.

    If you go through the training and never compete, you can call yourself an MMAist. However, those who compete have far more credibility.
     
  6. mai tai

    mai tai Valued Member

    as far as number 5 goes..

    i think pat militich started out crapping around in a garage.

    im sure jon lober did.

    i knowa few guys in buffalo who started out with instructional videos who are now great.

    and it has alot to do with your area....in dallas or la i wouldnt dream of teaching mma, boxing or MT.

    but if somehow i got stuck in small time rural montana...and i was the only thing around and i found a few nut riders who wanted to do more....well then im the expert.




    also liniages are great but every art at one time or another started out withtwo people crapping around in a gargage.

    weather that garage is a horsebarn in japan, a tractor barn in iowa, or basement in missisippi



    that being said....some time or another ...someone in your gym has to compete
     
  7. ICT

    ICT Shaolin Malay Silat

    First I want to thank everyone who responded and I appreciate your comments!

    Yea and the funny thing about that was Those SELF-PROCLAIMED EXPERTS didn't know the rules themselves and when I got the official ruling from the UFC and showed how little they know they tried to say that the e-mail was some how fake! HA, HA, HA some people just can't admit when they're wrong and will go to any lengths to hide that fact!

    But what if there is no misrepresentation! I tell them I have never fought MMA and if they want to compete then I will help them and if they're not satisfied with my training I will put them in touch with someone who routinely trains competition MMA fighters. (around here I'm not sure who that is yet but in New Mexico it was Eddie DeLuca or Victor Hernandez. I sent Vic over 12 guys who came to me and said they wanted to compete MMA and become pro)


    I tell potential students exactly my intentions which is to teach Sport MMA following the UFC Rules using techniques from Boxing, Muay Thai, Judo, JuJitsu, Wrestling and Karate/Kung Fu. (Which I do have the skills & experience to teach)

    I did have plans at one time to get into the MMA competition training but it fell through and then with orders to PCS to Mississippi that didn't help.

    Now since most of my students now are Air Force they aren't allowed to compete. They just want to learn the style and/or techniques of MMA because they like it and think it's a good Martial Art. (After all would you rather learn plain old Karate, TKD, Judo or whatever when you could learn MMA?)

    It is also important to note that I didn't haphazardly just start teaching MMA, I researched the techniques taught, training regiments and styles to make sure I had the skills & knowledge to do so. I talked it over with MMA fighters & trainers like Vic, who was very supportive and even let me watch and participate if I wanted in his classes to see how it was done. I was giving the curriculum Bas Rutten uses by one of his students to follow and use as reference material. After all of that, about 6mos of research before I decided to teach a MMA class.

    Sincerely,
    Teacher: Eddie Ivester
     
  8. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    Said by someone earlier - a person who trains MMA.

    No, I don't think so. They just have to know their stuff and have put it to the test, whether in the gym, in the ring, or on the street.

    Some characteristics of typical MMA training.

    1. All ranges are taken into account (striking, clinch, ground).
    2. Training based on resistance.
    3. Training in sporting martial arts.
    4. Focus of training based on a sports-oriented goal.

    All characteristics don't necessarily apply.

    No, but it's best.

    If you can put it all together and transition between the ranges, I don't see where it would be a problem.
     
  9. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Training extensively in both striking and grappling arts.

    Eh, perhaps it's parsing and splitting of hairs on my part, but I feel a "Mixed Martial Artist" is one who competes in MMA competition, while one who trains but doesn't compete is just someone who trains Mixed Martial Arts. Not everyone will agree, but that's just my opinion.

    Actively training in both striking and grappling arts. Mixing ranges (standup - clinch - ground).

    I'd hope that they at least competed at a few notable venues, and would be nice to have a decent grappling or kickboxing record to stand by.

    If you have that kind of experience, then yeah; especially so if you train them under Unified MMA ruleset (UFC rules).

    Having no record of your own to speak of, takes away a substantial leg to stand on. Not saying that it's "wrong" to teach without competing yourself, but certain things you learn as you fight certainly grant you legitimacy.

    To contrast, I current train straight BJJ often with instructors who have never fought MMA, and I train Muay Thai with an instructor who has never fought MMA. Certain things I learn, are more useful in their respective isolated environments, and may not translate so well into full MMA. A good MMA coach, will already know of these issues, and will address them accordingly, rather than letting you learn and find out the hard way.

    I'd have to see what you teach before I could critique, criticize, or even comment on what you do. From what you've said, I see nothing wrong....then again, these could be carefully worded questions, intended to mislead us :D
     
  10. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    Quoted for truth. At best you have tossed together concepts for various systems you claim to have learned but have refused to prove and created some crappling hybrid system that you slap a patch on and call it "MMA". Me personally, I call it "bullshido".
     
  11. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    I actually thought about this for a bit, and decided that as I student, I probably wouldn't come to you for MMA instruction because you haven't really got solid experience on the ground (from what I can tell from reading your posts). Is that a true statement?
     
  12. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    When asked in the thread in question, Mr. ICT refused to provide his credentials. That speaks volumes. I'll even give him a chance to answer again:

     
  13. Scarlet Mist

    Scarlet Mist Banned Banned


    Dude, if you have an axe to grind, why not grind it in the other thread. You know, the one with all the axe grinding in it.

    Still, it's your axe, and you can do what you want with it.
     
  14. Slindsay

    Slindsay All violence is necessary

    http://www.ict-silat.com/BIO.htm
     
  15. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Domino, you know not even I could provide the specific answers to those questions about my own coaches.
     
  16. KempoFist

    KempoFist Attention Whore

    Why is there so much questioning and hate for this guy here? I have to keep checking the top of the page to make sure I didn't accidentally click back onto Bullshido.
     
  17. ICT

    ICT Shaolin Malay Silat

    Ok Domino,

    1. What is your real NAME!
    2. How many MMA fights have you been in?
    3. Who were/are your MMA instructors: Names, Ranks, Fight Record?

    Lets see where you stand before I even consider you note worthy of wasting my time with you!

    Sincerely,
    Teacher: Eddie Ivester
     
  18. Yohan

    Yohan In the Spirit of Yohan Supporter

    Hell, Yohan hasn't got problem 1 with the guy. It's the bull in a china shop attitude, I reckon.
     
  19. Davey Bones

    Davey Bones New Member

    Nice try. Answer my questions. Otherwise you just sound like some guy who's decided to jump on the MMA bandwagon. If you can't (or won't) even tell me what style of kung fu you studied I'm not going to believe a word you type. And pretty soon I'll be breaking out the "fraud" word...
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2007
  20. ICT

    ICT Shaolin Malay Silat

    Am I an expert at grappling, NO and neither is a lot of MMA coaches.

    There are 2 schools of MMA: Grapplers than can strike and Strikers that can grapple. I put myself in the Striker that can grapple category.

    I have trained with Rickson Gracie at seminars and students of his. My cousin Jimmy Jam was a BJJ fanatic who trained with Rickson and at a Gracie School with one of their instructors. I have rolled with a lot of Wrestlers, Judo, Jujitsu, BJJ, GJJ students and I hold my own with Black Belts that are 10-15 years my junior. Are most of the Black Belts better than me and know more techniques than I do, YES!

    So there you have it Yohan.

    Sincerely,
    Teacher: Eddie Ivester
     

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