What if they're not wearing a shirt

Discussion in 'Judo' started by tooksomechin_na, Aug 28, 2012.

  1. tooksomechin_na

    tooksomechin_na Valued Member

    Wouldn't a lot of throws (like throwing someone over your shoulder) not work if they weren't wearing one. But, also it would have to be a fairly thick shirt, trying to shoulder throw someone wearing a T-shirt would likely rip it, wouldn't it?
     
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Sweet jeebers......

    Leaving aside the fact that you are wrong about the mechanics, ANY technique will require modification in certain circumstances. If you cannot use that throw gues what? USE ANOTHER INSTEAD!

    Revolutionary concept!

    It is like saying "well if he wear a crash helmet you cannot punch him so lets not train head punches"
     
  3. Omicron

    Omicron is around.

    With a little modification to your grips, a lot of judo throws can work in a no-gi situation. Try experimenting with over/under hooks and wrist control to replace sleeve grips, and grips on the back of the neck to replace lapel grips. With a little tweaking, you can still get mileage out of judo throws. If you're interested, I suggest trying a few no-gi BJJ classes, especially if you can find a school that teaches a decent amount of standup. A lot of the techniques are similar to judo; they just have the modifications necessary to work without using clothing grips. Even just a class or two would probably be enough to give you some ideas to play with.
     
  4. Herbo

    Herbo Valued Member

    If some guy attacks me and I smash him with a big throw, I don't really care if I rip his t shirt to be honest.
     
  5. Slindsay

    Slindsay All violence is necessary

    Bunch up the t-shirt, grab hold of the guy or use a throw that doesn't rely on gripping the gi, problem solved.
     
  6. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    German Suplex . That is all
     
  7. Princess Haru

    Princess Haru Valued Member

    Why do I get the sneaky suspicion this is Vampyregirl (sp?)?
     
  8. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    This actually happened to me last night, well I dreamt about it anyway, Ronda was there in her gi, And I said 'hey toots, why dont you slip into something more comfortable, like my arms' Actually thinking about it there wasnt exactly a hip throw involved either, but the positioning was similar, so anyway what was the question again???
     
  9. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    Any of the throws used in wrestling don't require any grips on clothing. Go to 1:42 in the following clip for an example.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xueIqmXfa5U"]Head and Arm Throw - YouTube[/ame]

    or look at this other clip...

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKTzjQ57G00"]Wrestling Head and Arm Throw.wmv - YouTube[/ame]

    When all you are wearing is a singlet there isn't anything to grab so the throws all have to be applicable no matter what the opponent is wearing..

    Just sayin....

    LFD
     
  10. Marcy Shoberg

    Marcy Shoberg Valued Member

    It looks to me like you think of Judo as self-defense training. Of course many of the moves could be used in self-defense situations. But, it really is a sport.
     
  11. HarryF

    HarryF Malued Vember

    You and Hannibal beat me to it... Although some wrestling moves can be tricky to pull off it the guy grabs YOUR shirt while you're trying a duck under/arm drag/whatever... So these SPORT techniques may require modification to suit the situation too...

    To the OP: You and a training partner could always try it out wearing old t-shirts you don't mind ripping, see what works for you...
     
  12. 19thlohan

    19thlohan Beast and the Broadsword

    Of all the throws that illustrate your point that you could have named you use the one that, even in classic judo, doesn't need anything but an arm to grab as your example?
     
  13. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    In the following process, the shirt is not involved.

    - Grab your left hand on your opponent's right wrist.
    - Use your right forearm to lift under his right elbow (This will force him to stand on his toes). You can also use your right forearm under his right shoulder to horizontally guide his body toward your back (you may have to meet him 1/2 way).
    - Spin your body into him.
    - Keep your left hand still on his wrist. Make his right hand touch your belly. Wrap your right hand on his right upper arm, and
    - complet your throw.
     
  14. HarryF

    HarryF Malued Vember

    Good explanation, I see very similar mechanics whether the right arm goes under their left arm pit (with your left hand in overhook position) [suplex, or hip throw, depending on foot positioning], right arm is around the neck (left hand holding their right tricep, just ebove the elbow) [hip throw], the way you described [shoulder throw?], or when the left hand holds their right wrist, you right hand goes under their right upper arm, you step through, arch your back (bridge) and turn away from their body, pulling their arm around your neck [neck throw, tought to me as a "twizler"].

    Not sure if I described the last one very well, but I made it work while wrestling...

    In an SD context though, the suplex and twizler may not be best as the thrower ends up on the ground too, albeit in a dominant position...
     
  15. Seventh

    Seventh Super Sexy Sushi Time

    If it doesn't work, adapt so it does work, or use something else.
     
  16. Kave

    Kave Lunatic

    A suplex is awesome for self defence, instead of working hard to land your opponent safely you can just spike them. An added bonus is if you have just driven someone into the ground head-first their friends will probably be a bit wary of you.
     
  17. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    While giant pickups are probably my second favorite "fo realz" fight technique (The first is entering with a right hand in order to set up the aforementioned, if that says anything) I'd be wary of the ones that put the guy on his head. You don't want a manslaughter charge. I'd recommend some of the sideways ones where he lands on one shoulder and the side of his head. Still dangerous, still potentially lethal, but less so. Better yet a nice high-amplitude hipthrow or pickup straight to the back.
     
  18. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    To the OP: There isn't any core technique in judo short of gi-chokes AFAIK that won't work on a shirtless opponent. Some are easier with the stronger grips a jacket provides but most aren't a problem if your kuzushi and collar-and-elbow tie are decent.

    In SAMBO(IME, anyway) we look at the jacket as training wheels. If you can't do the technique without the jacket, you're doing it wrong somehow. (short of a few specialties that are rather uncommon to Judo anyway) And the throwing is essentially the same. Emphasis and stylistic differences in execution are the only real differences.
     
  19. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    The major difference between Gi and no-Gi is in no-Gi, your have to replace your Gi pulling to something else. If you can't find that replacement, about 1/2 of your throws won't be able to apply in no-Gi environment. Without Gi, the lapel hold doesn't exist.
     
  20. Herbo

    Herbo Valued Member

    I should also mention that I live in Scotland so there are only ~3 days a year when its warm enough for someone to attack me wearing anything less than a fur lined jacket.
     

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