What does everone think of CNG's SKK...

The American Heritage dictionary defines fraud as:

1. A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.
2. A piece of trickery; a swindle.
3. A. One who defrauds; a cheat. B. One who assumes a false pose; an impostor; a sham.

If you lie to your instructor, telling him you have been studying twice as long as you actually have and the result is a promotion for you...
Then IMHO you have fraudulently obtained your rank and are a fraud.
It really has nothing to do with the style or affiliations as far as I am concerned.

 

To use your own words... "got any video to demonstrate" Oh yea I forgot!! It is full of secret techniques. :bang:

Also, what makes the pinan demonstrations "purple" level? got any video to demonstrate what it should look like??

Here is my analysis:
Although the blocks and punches look solid. What make it look like a "purple belt", besides the body alignment issues as the transitions are performed, is the way the head bobs from side to side as the strikes and blocks are performend. I weed that out of my students at orange belt. It is a common mistake with most beginners, good instruction and 2 hours worth of private lessons would cure that.

I see the forms have cat stances the way he was taught. I have them too. However, the purpose to teach those, is to have you using the cat stances as "transitional steps". Once you are past purple belt those transitional steps become exactly that, transitional. In other words you do not hold those stances you transition through and continue with your half moon step. Again, there is nothing there that a little detailing and some weeks of practice would not cure.

JoeV.

 

haha yeah I have to giggle a bit at that, he does do that sometimes. I think he was a little nervous performing for Sijo Gascon...

I have previouly discussed that exact question, and they teach it that way on purpose, to hold that cat stance for a half-beat. It has to do with monitoring your opponent, timing...



Two issues? one a legitimate criticism, one a technical difference of opinion. Based on that, calling this "purple belt level" seems a little over the top. Can anyone say for sure that, if you were taped doing a kata on any given day, there would be nothing like this to criticize? Perfect on one take every time?

-David

 

David,
I know you will defend your Sensei’s action to the death – based on your previous posts on other sites. Maybe the organization in which you train is the best Omaha has to offer (clean dojo, good people to train with etc..) I don’t know (haven’t lived there since 1990 and didn’t have time to train while I was there). Maybe he is not news worthy and has done some good – will this be enough to offset the fact that he got to his position of power be defrauding those around him? Maybe the good he has done replaces the bad. Only time will tell.

No, he doesn’t owe me or anyone else an explanation for his actions, but to make it right in my book and the majority of those in the martial arts community – I would strip him of rank and make him retest via a board of respected Martial Arts Masters (if he goes back to purple belt – so be it) and earn his rank through honesty and hard work. No video testing or playing on the sympathies of organizational leaders.

Lastly –he could use a little humility. Honest people don’t need to keep seeking the approval of those around him. All of those photo’s and letters do little to impress humble Martial Arts practioners.

 

There are actually three issues. One with the head bobbing, one with the changes in direction, one with the transitional steps.
It really does not matter though. What the videos show is a Godan who is still working through some of the errors that are committed by purple belts while performing a yellow and orange belt form. Believe it or not, I warm up by doing one and two pinan. I can say this, if any 1st Kyu performed those forms like that, during their evaluation. They would not receive their promotion. I am not being arrogant. It boils down to standards. I learned my standards from my Instructors. They learned their standards from their Instructors etc...
Mr. Geary circumvented the learnng process in his Martial Atrs studies. He has never worked long enough to refine his technique through learning and practicing under his Instructors. In his race for rank he forgot the most important part. It is not the rank that makes the Martial Artist, it is the dedication to the study of the Arts and what the Arts represent, that makes the Martial Artist. Mr. Geary has cheated himself and more importantly, his students out of the benefit of excellent Instruction in the art of KGS. Which is the mother art of his system.
Do I think I could pull off 1 and 2 pinan, spot on, all the time... Yup! No matter where, when or in front of whom.
If I could not, I would not have received my Shodan rank from my Instructor. It just goes back to standards again.
I guess my standards are higher than those of Mr. Geary. Then again, I want to make sure I can make my Instructors proud I am their student and I want to make my students proud I am their Sensei.
It goes with being sincere in your Martial Art studies. Showing the charater required to humble yourself and admit you have much to learn no matter what rank you are.
Those are the standards I hold myself and my students to.
I see that sorely lacking with Mr. Geary and unfortuantely his students are not learning those lessons.
JoeV.

 

wow. i thought you guys were hard on him before.

just out of curiosity, has anyone that has critized cng ever trained with him?

other than lying to Professor Ceiro, the floridia incident, and the video of shaolin defense #3: exactly what is it that makes all of you dislike this guy so much. I've noticed that a few people think that cng has an ego. and that alot of people do not like that he rose through the ranks quickly.


don't get me wrong, i'm not here to start the crusade and argue back and forth. these are the only issues that i've picked on, and these issues are from people that haven't trained under cng.

can anyone find a former student of cng that feels the same way as much as alot of you.

 

where can i find the pinan form that everyone was talkin about??

 

Go on to Geary's site and check out chapter 14.... It is a link in the document.

 

Hey Josh, I think you better check out the KGS BBS site. There is some new information posted there. I think this may help explain why I feel the way I do.
We can talk after.
JoeV.

 

Actually, I've done very little defending of Christopher Geary. You won't find posts from me saying "OMG Prof Geary is the best MA ever!!!11!" because (1) who would believe me anyway and (2) he's not and (3) I don;t train with him on any kind of regualr basis.

I have argued lots of things but I don't defend the lie he told Nick Cerio and I don't defend vandalising that car in Florida. Those are his mistakes and by writing openly about them on his web site Prof. Geary is, I think, trying to come clean about all of it. Many people have made mistakes most do not publish them on their own web site.

oh yeah, and, if you're paying that much attention to this on multiple web sites, you might have read where I said Prof. Geary is NOT my instructor, and that I do not train with him on a regular basis. That is the primary reason why I do not make any comments on his abilities etc... that and the fact that even if I did nobody would believe anything I said anyways LOL I mostly see him at ceremonies and talk to him on the phone about projects we are doing.

==============

Joe V... to talk about humility and then say you execute the forms perfectly every time... I dunno, man... put up the video. That's not a humble statement, so let's see it, please. The difference between Shihan Steiner and you should be strikingly obvious, shouldn't it?

 

David, I stand exactly by my statement. What is not humble about that? To say I can perform yellow and orange belt forms "spot on" is not arrogance. This is what required by my Instructors. It represents the standards my Instructors have set and adhere to plain and simple...
My Instructors believe by the time you reach 1st Kyu you should have those forms down and be able to perform them lefty, with alternate strikes, at all angles and directions...etc.
It is the standards thing again. My Instructors have different standards than yours that is all. Which is better? I vote for my Instructors and their lineage. Let's cut it down to the brass tacks... Just exactly what is Mr. Gearys lineage? Prof. Cerio cut him off his black belt tree, the KGS BBS has rescinded any rank and severed all contact with him. I gather from your posts and his website that he teaches SKK? Who is his SKK,KGS,Kenpo/Kempo Instructor?
JoeV.

 

Thanks for the follow-up information.

 

JoeV.[/QUOTE]

Joe,
I was wondering that myself. In the Geary "Kempo" tree he has Lou Angel listed? I realize many instructors cross train in other arts, but they usually don't include them in the lineage of their core art.
I see he has direct links to GGM Gascon and Nick Cerio (I know he has been removed from both of their sites), but who was Mr. Geary's instructor for the time he trained before contacting Nick Cerio and GGM Gascon? I love how some instructors leave out people that were part of their training, like nobody will ever know.

 

Joe,
I was wondering that myself. In the Geary "Kempo" tree he has Lou Angel listed? I realize many instructors cross train in other arts, but they usually don't include them in the lineage of their core art.
I see he has direct links to GGM Gascon and Nick Cerio (I know he has been removed from both of their sites), but who was Mr. Geary's instructor for the time he trained before contacting Nick Cerio and GGM Gascon? I love how some instructors leave out people that were part of their training, like nobody will ever know.[/QUOTE]


don't take my word on it, but i think that cng trained on his own for awhile. when he returned to omaha as a green belt, i beleive that he was the 1st kempo instructor in omaha. and then he got promoted to black belt by Professor Ceiro (lying to Prof. Ceiro is irrelevant for the moment). If there was no one around to train cng then he must have studied on his own while creating his own style. if he was training on his own then he must have watched videos and practiced them(?). if that's the case, then he learned them well enough on his own to get promoted to 1st kyu then black belt.

now before anyone gets worked up about me saying the lying is irrelevant, let me explain. I don't think that Professor Ceiro was looking for a minimum traing time to promote cng. but since cng lied to the professor, that would be why Ceiro took the rank from him, if he did. I'm saying if he did because I've never seen the paper that says that Ceiro did that.

 

JoeV.

i read the latest addition to the saga. it is interesting on both sides of the fence. are you a part of the KGS BSS?

i'd very much like to see the feud end for a number of reasons. it would be great for our two organizations to be working together again, we would have Sonny Gascon actively in our kempo lineage again. the kempo community would be a little more united.

i guess i'll have to wait awhile for that.

 

From http://www.christophergeary.com/autobiography-6.php, written by Mr. Geary concerning this very subject.

Besides the lies-for-paper, I thought it might be interesting to note the undertones of just that paragraph. Notice the "I, me, myself" perspective of a person who has studied for 18 months (under instructors he, himself notes as terrible) defining what his master in the art should expect and demand from a student.

Another interesting point or two can be seen on the same page:

He spent 18 months studying MA from incompetent instructers yet had his own school? He spent 18 months studying MA from incompetent instructers yet was expert enough to develop his own system? Moreso, he had a school, taking people's hard earned money to "play[ed] around with all kinds of stuff from wrist locks to different punch attacks-anything and everything". But hey! He "had the paper now."

If the "paper" is what someone wants, e-bay'll give it to you for $35.

Josh, I have no particular dog in this, but will give an "outside" perspective. What he did was wrong. His "autobiography of a MA Master" does him no favors. He wronged Cerio in lieing for paper, wronged his students by charging them to allow him to "play" with his MA stuff, and wrongs the entire Kempo community by advertising all of the above (and more mid you).

Live and let live. I wish him well. But for goodness' sake! Talk to him! Ask him to take that wretched self-agrandizing BS off the net! It'll do us all good-- him more than anyone else!

 

Josh,
Yes, I am a member of the KGS BBS. I am not a member of the executive board and do not represent the KGS BBS in any official capacity. Let me say though, I do respect GGM. Gascon and the KGS BBS. I believe in honoring all the Seniors in my lineage. However, I reserve a special place of honor for the creator of the system that brought this Art to so many people. I am fortunate to be able to trace my roots directly to Sijo Gascon. That is not a bold statement. I am but one, of perhaps 10,000 if not more, dan ranks that can make the same claim.

I can't speak for the KGS BBS, I only speak for myself.
I think that the window of opportunity for Mr. Geary to make an apology, is way gone now.
Josh, I am not saying this to be insulting.
Mr. Geary has had his Shodan Ranking in his "foundation art" rescinded by one of the Legends in my lineage, Prof. Cerio. He also has had any ties to GGM. Gascon severed AND ALSO had his recognition of rank rescinded/stripped. Therefore, his original goal of getting dan ranked by a respected senior in his KGS,NCK,SKK lineage has gone right out the window. Due to his own actions and what I consider, a lack of character. Josh, you have to admit that is quite the dubious honor.
I think it will be a VERY, VERY long time before CNG and any KGS and NCK organizations ever come together. There is always hope, but based on Mr. Geary's actions and words... I think it might be a false hope.
JoeV.

 

You're welcome!

 

Joe,
I was wondering that myself. In the Geary "Kempo" tree he has Lou Angel listed? I realize many instructors cross train in other arts, but they usually don't include them in the lineage of their core art.
I see he has direct links to GGM Gascon and Nick Cerio (I know he has been removed from both of their sites), but who was Mr. Geary's instructor for the time he trained before contacting Nick Cerio and GGM Gascon? I love how some instructors leave out people that were part of their training, like nobody will ever know.[/QUOTE]

I think he(Geary) was pretty much self taught...
Explains, a lot doesn't it? :woo: