What does everone think of CNG's SKK...

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by Joe V., Feb 4, 2006.

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  1. dianhsuhe

    dianhsuhe Co-Founder: Glow-Do


    Kempojosh- I was just curious how you guys felt about it and you were clear enough...

    I am not trying to bug you guys but I am curious how both of you felt after viewing these performances. Should we assume that Shihan Steiner, David and yourself cannot do the form better than CNG? LOL

    That can't be right can it?

    To the girl below- It sounds like the tournament was unfair but you will learn more from losing (even if you SHOULD have been handed the victory) than from easily winning. Did you attend this tournament to win, to compete, or to help in perfecting your martial spirit?

    Sounds like point sparring at a MMA tournament?

    It is also worth mentioning that while yours was an interesting post, it does not "seem" to have any pertinance to the CNG thread. (Which is fine with me :D )

    p.s. can you post some video of your match?
  2. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich RENEGADE

    There are links to video of Mr. Steiner and Mr. Rash both performing kata on this page.

    My question is. Who taught Steiner?
  3. dianhsuhe

    dianhsuhe Co-Founder: Glow-Do


    Oh yeah I did watch Steiner awhile back when all this started-
  4. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    According to Mr. Geary's website. Mr. Geary's is Mr. Steiner's sole instructor.
  5. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    Sorry to hear about your negative experience. I would not let this keep me from participating in future tournaments though. Just to clarify... When you say mixed martial arts did you mean an open tornament open to all styles? I have been there myself and I just chalked it up to not showing the center judge what they wanted to see. This is what I did after my match. I respectfully asked the center judge to help me clarify what he was looking for in order to call a point. He did not want to see as heavy contact as I was using. Next tournament I attended, he was the center judge again and I adjusted my strikes accordingly and I won the division in sparring...(That would be the "older than dirt" division by the way :D )
    Another tournamnet I attended the judge would not call a point unless you "moved" the person you were sparring. Next time be sure to watch the preceeding matches and it will help you identify what the judges prefer to call a point.
    Just my 2 cents.
  6. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    I've got no secret info or source:

    The recommendation for the award at the HMAIS - I know he did get the award, did the KGS BBS recommend him for it? As far as I know, yes, they did. How do I know? I think I heard that from Prof. Geary. Not sure if anyone else has said it. It's in Chapter 14.

    Geary's initial resignation, and the KGS BBS bringing him back in - email conversations posted to the web.

    Given a teaching certificate - I posted an image of it.

    I know who AC is but not sure why he's been dragged into it :confused: none of this info came from him. It's all posted on the web here or there.

    The point I am trying to make is that the KGS BBS is telling a big lie when they say they wanted him out from day one. If they really did want him out, then WHY when he LEFT did they bring him back in?????????

    If you really want to dump your girlfriend but haven't got the balls to do it, then one day she breaks up with you... do you call her, get back together, and give her a present??? Or do you thankfully go your own way happy that you got out of a bad relationship easily? :bang: the fact that they brought him back in after he resigned puts the lie to the "Omaha Disappointment" story. Or, maybe they just hadn't got enough patch money out of us yet.

    dianhsuhe - I wrote about my take on the Prof. Geary's kata 2 video in post #258.

    akja - Shihan Steiner's teacher was Christopher Geary. He has worked with a number of people in the years since I have known him, but Prof. Geary trained him from white belt to where he is today.
  7. KempoJer

    KempoJer Valued Member

    I was wondering the same thing. After watching that video you would never know that Steiner was taught by Geary. Geary just walked through his form compared to Steiner.
  8. KGS BBS

    KGS BBS Valued Member

    Hi guys, I've got too many things to do right now that spring is here, have a little over four acres that I landscape not only for us but for the annual summer camp we have, plus my full time job and teaching, not too mention I am really, really getting sick of the s.o.s, God bless you guys, I don't know how you do it,lol. First of all, it was me personally who didn't want Geary in the KGS BBS but in all due respect to my superiors, please understand I was just a spoke in the wheel, I did not call the shots, so don't blame the KGS BBS for saying that, it as me acting as me,lol, and I stand by it 100 per cent to this day.

    Gentlemen, everyone is getting off track here, for a while myself included. This was never about Geary's abilities or lack of, it was his disrespect and arrogance. It was over his character flaws and the sickening narcisism he has displayed. If we all decided and agreed upon he was a good solid martial artist it would all be irrelevant to what myself personally and the KGS BBS believes about the man himself. Let me repeat, it's not about ability, Sonny Gas didn't review his video, we discussed this a million times, to answser a question from my friend Jim in an e-mail I just thought of now, yes, Hanshi Angel promoted Geary in Shaolin Kempo to 6th and later 7th BUT 6th before Gascon awarded him the rank. I said this before, just go to our homepage, Gascon also refers to the art as Shaolin Ch'uan fa and that is what Hanshi ranked him in originally, CNG's Shaolin Ch'uan fa. Now, the only Ch'uan fa (Kempo) he learned was from the Gascon lineage: Gascon-Pesare-Cerio-Villari-Materra, yes, Charlie Materra's USSD. So, Jim, to clear that up, yes, Mr. Angel promoted him in that, viewing the video and I did it with someone in Goju and Shaolin Kempo, we did not see Goju, we saw SKK and NCK which is fine, it's all good stuff but my Goju man did not see Goju as Geary stated. Now, maybe for high black belt rank curriculum he decided to use the Goju forms because, and this is not a dig but the truth, he only went up to Green belt in SKK. However, that brings me to the question of why just do #1 Pinan and #2 Kata? #1 Pinan is given at white belt in all styles that use it. It is actually Shotokan's Taikyoku shodan (first cause form) the student's first look at Shotokan developed by Gichen Funakoshi. #2 kata in KGS and SKK is given at purple belt rank for blue belt and was created by GGM. Gascon. He should have done advance forms, I think we can all concur on that.

    So, everyone can go on and on, Geary has his supporters, KGS BBS has their supporters, Lou Angel has his and we have the independents who have voiced their opinions BUT the bottom line is none are going to change those opinions and this can go on forever....

    I will close with this, let me emphasize, Geary's disconnect by GGM. Gascon was not over his performance at the time but something deeper than that. Something he perceived about the man. We know more than what we can say right now and I feel if everything was laid out, well, let's put it this way, not even his supporters will want to touch those e-mails we posted on black mail/extortion of rank and most won't comment on what happened to the young girl in Florida (public record), well, that's only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to this guy. This is no bluff or b.s., I don't do that but on what I know personally, I wouldn't promote him to a kennel keeper, I have to much love and respect for animals to do that. Guys, let it go, you're going nowhere. I can check back in the fall and if you guys continue, you will be in the same place, mark my words. Sincerely, Professor Joe
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2006
  9. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    I didn't find the e-mails you are talking about. I did see the e-mail from Prof. Rash replying to Mr. Geary's inquiry for more material. I didn't see one shred of evidence that Mr. Geary resigned from the KGS BBS and they asked him to come back. Can you help me find where the e-mails from the KGS are?
    So far the only one who knows about him quitting and being asked back in the KGS BBS is Mr. Geary...HHHMMM.
    I guess I could say I don't believe him(Geary) and that is all the information I would need. Please, show me the 1st resignation letter from Mr. Geary and the response from the KGS BBS asking him to return. Then we can finish this point and move on to next.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2006
  10. guan-gi

    guan-gi New Member

    still KGS BBS?

    As far as that goes, wasn't Steiner also issued a relatively high rank by the KGS BBS? And since Geary was supposedly "the only one" ever stripped of rank by that organization.....do you follow me? :)
  11. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich RENEGADE

    Theres no Steiner here.

    Was he issued rank too?
  12. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    It's kindof strange, Shihan Steiner was never given any rank in KGS, but he DID get a teaching certificate, allowing him to teach and promote students up to 3rd Dan in Karazenpo. I asked him to give my dog a 3rd but he said no LOL.

    well, that ought to tell us something about relying on video to make judgements. Especially video clips selected by someone trying to make you look bad.
  13. guan-gi

    guan-gi New Member


    So to follow the logic----a person could get promoted in by a recognized KGS BBS teacher at a CNG SKK school?
  14. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    My Instructor, Shihan Steiner, was never notified that his teaching cert. was revoked. We just assumed it was... he never really cared about the KGS BBS affiliation anyway, never got ranked by them.
  15. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    Kinda "fuzzy logic" wouldn't ya think? To be ranked by someone not affiliated with the granting authority? Kinda like getting a PHD from a non accredited University, what's the point? To have a piece of paper so you can impress the ignorant?
  16. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    Well, technically, the teaching certificate IS accredidation, isn't it???
  17. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    The granting authority no longer recognizes the affiliation. Is it really that hard to understand?
    More to the point, why would anyone who considers himself a devotee of the Martial Arts even consider that possibility? That would be pretty low indeed. Are you just musing? :confused:
  18. guan-gi

    guan-gi New Member


    According to what Professor Shuras just posted, CNG was removed for his lack of respect. How is it fuzzy logic to assume that Steiner was NOT removed, since he was not guilty of such an infraction? For that matter, what all of the others that David states paid dues and got patches. Are they no longer recognized either? I guess the question is just how many people are getting their rank rescinded? Was CNG really the only one? I think this whole business is shady, at best, from any direction you look at it. Just my humble opinion.
  19. guan-gi

    guan-gi New Member


    And, to be honest, Joe V., I was kind of musing. At the same time I think their is a real issue in there somewhere.
  20. kempojosh

    kempojosh Valued Member

    I just looked at the kgs website and there are two students still listed as part of the family. There might be more but I don't know everyone in the cng skk schools.
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