What does everone think of CNG's SKK...

Discussion in 'Kenpo' started by Joe V., Feb 4, 2006.

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  1. kempojosh

    kempojosh Valued Member

    honestly, i don't care about geary's video, to a degree. to throw it out there for you guys, and with all due respect to professor geary, the videos are not what I expected. before i go any further, let me say that when the rest of the video is posted, i don't care if it's bad or good, to a degree. i'm not leaving the school because of it. like i said before, i attend shihan steiner's school and i love it. steiner has a wealth of knowledge.

    i thought that speed was lacking. and there are other little things i noticed, but i noticed things with all the other videos.....now for the sake of a fair argument. since none of us have discussed with geary how he likes to perform his techniques. we don't know if he likes to have lots of speed or is he likes a calmer flow to the technique. so to judge if the whole thing is crap, none of us can really do that. we can say something like: i would have done this differently, etc.

    if someone does not perform a technique how "everyone else" thinks it should be done, then that doesn't mean that the person doesn't know the technique. knowing the technique is about having the knowledge and understanding it and the theories of it. and being a good instructor is to be able to pass it on. based on what i have seen from attending steiner's school, it appears that geary is very knowledgable and a good teacher. i've also received some instruction during class from geary (twice). and he knew what he was talking about. so basically, i'm saying that from what i've seen, he is definately not a fraud.

    about caring about the video....i wanted to see the video just like everybody else did. so far the video has not helped him, as far as this forum goes.

    is that clear enough for you guys?
  2. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich RENEGADE

    I'm confused. How many certificates did Geary get from the KGS BBS? And it's been said that they only had one certificate to issue but those two certificates both look differant.

    And look at the dates. The 6th dan was before the 5th dan.

    Attached Files:

  3. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    Rank Certificate VS Teaching Certificate.

    Those are two different certs. One is a rank cert the other is a teaching cert.
  4. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    I just pulled this off the KGS site. I didn't notice any of the comments being removed or edited from the KGS site.

    April 21, 2006

    It was brought to my attention that erroneous information from an annonymous source (who we all know) was sent to CNG and posted on his Chapter 14. This individual was uncovered last year using an alias and attacking the KGS BBS without merit, all due to the fact he was released from his duties by GGM. Gascon after having an unfounded dispute with Sensei Ken Swan and others in the New York area. When confronted with overwelming evidence, he 'fessed' up, apologized and asked for a truce. It was granted after much deliberation. If this immature and unfounded bashing continues, I will disclose all records and documents of what I stated above regarding this 'truce'. Further information may be found at http://hmaisociety.proboards56.com/index.cgi

    This subject was also relieved of duties from the Hawaii Martial Arts International Society (HMAIS) by Professor Jaime Abregana and his Executive Board. A thread was posted on the above link of the HMAIS message board in regards to this individual which resulted in much negativity by its members. I was just with this gentlemen last month as we met at my school on a Sunday and went for coffee. We hade a very cordial meeting, last time I visited him in his home town. However, after he observed this thread on the HMAIS message board he dispatched an e-mail out and I will take an excerpt from it:

    As of today I have drawn the line, no more will be tolerated. I have
    been forced to go back to the 60's and 70's mindset. I am formally breaking
    away from any who have affiliated with the Hmais. All Hmais patches will
    be spit upon. A Haole no more will we be called.
    Submitted by the Great Haole, (name withheld by the KGS BBS).

    I responded to this e-mail essentially saying there was no way I was going
    to resign my membership and position in the HMAIS. This was his battle,
    not mine and that he created these problems himself. Hense, his 'unholy'
    alliance with Mr. Geary and the misinformation he has sent out under annonymity

    I will not waste time, space and energy and address every issue here but
    I will take one of the most ridiculous allegations posed as fact. Here
    it is: *Pucino - 1995 went from 2nd to 7th Dan, 2003 - 7th Dan to 8th
    Dan. No evaluation. Gascon really likes her. Go figure?
    Okay, to clear this up undisputedly, check the net, it's on there, http://www.urbin.net/EWW/MA/KEMPO/kempohis.html, in 1994 myself, my wife and Prof. Nick Cerio were special guests to Sijo Victor 'Sonny' Gascon's first visit to a mainland school in 30 years. He was accompanied by Professor Walter L. N. Godin. This was at Virginia Beach and it was hosted by Sifu Bruce Corrigan who can verify what I am about to write. Paula Pucino, a 6th degree Black Belt in 1994 (originally trained and ranked up to 6th dan by the New England founder of KGS), was promoted to 7th degree Black Belt by Sijo Gascon and Prof. Godin in 1994. Now, 9 years later, YES! 9 YEARS LATER in 2003, Professor Paula was promoted to 8th degree Black Belt by GGM. Gascon and the KGS BBS and she has the certificate w/date and signatures to prove it. Floor tested for 8th degree? Gimme a break! Did she perform in front of GGM. Gascon and Professor Godin back in 1994 for her 7th dan, absolutely, I was there and can prove it. I could take the time and shoot down the rest but 'nuff said'. Sensei Swan would also like to make statement.
    -Prof. Joe Shuras

    The information regarding my promotion to 2nd Dan by GGM. Gascon and Master Duncan's promotion are completely unfounded and pathetic. GGM. Gascon upon his visit to my school in Buffalo, NY in Oct. 2004 was kind enough to personally recognize the rank that I had been tested for by Master Duncan in the art of Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu two and half years prior to this visit. This honor was humbly received without my asking or my knowledge.

    GGM. Gascon after having met me, my students, and my instructor, Rudy Duncan (more than once) asked if I would mind being part of Master Duncan's promotion ceremony. Master Duncan had been tested for his 5th Dan in front of a panel of his instructors shortly before I left Massachusetts in the summer of 1999 and had continued to regularly train with them and other instructors for several years thereafter. Master Duncan had been evaluated by GGM. Gascon on different occassions prior to the promotion. This personal promotion by GGM. Gascon was also not asked for by neither myself or Master Duncan.
    -Sibak Ken Swan

    March 24,2006

    Official response regarding Mr. Christopher N. Geary and the Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu Black Belt Society:

    For the record, the KGS BBS began severing all ties with Christopher N. Geary after their disappointing trip to Omaha, Nebraska. This led to Mr. Geary's resignation and the eventual recinding of his recognition of rank by GGM. Gascon. The KGS BBS answered all of Geary's allegations thoroughly and publically, proving them to be false and of no merit, with the exception of two:

    #1) Mr. Geary was correct in stating during this time period that Professor Rash and GGM. Gascon did not return his e-mails and telephone calls.

    #2) Mr. Geary was also correct in stating he was getting nowhere with the KGS BBS, as was our intentions, for he was seeking further rank, this time an actual promotion from 6th to 7th dan in KGS.

    The positive aspect of all this was that we have since modified our screening process for membership and we are now including input from all members on new applicants. Although done only once, GGM. Gascon will no longer even entertain the idea of a recognition of a current rank out of courtesy and respect for a well known senior, which is usually referred to in martial arts organizations as a 'recomendation' or 'recomended rank'. GGM. Gascon and Professor Rash both humbly apologize for this embarrassing mistake. It was a learning experience and the result of all this is that it will never be repeated in the future.

    Mr. Geary's incriminating e-mails will be kept in our archives pending any possible further action. We wish to thank all our loyal members for their time and patience while we dealt with this sensitive situation. We would now like to put this matter in the past where it belongs. However, the posting of the controversial video of Mr. Geary that a great many of you have requested, will be at the discretion of Professor Rash. Once posted, we will not comment on it's contents. "We report, you decide".

    Respectfully submitted,
    Professor Joe Shuras, acting on behalf of GGM. Gascon and Professor Rash.
  5. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    Before I would post this information I would have e-mailed GM. Pesare and asked him what that means.
    I will not speak for GM Pesare although I DO KNOW that Prof. Pucino was ranked at 6th within GM. Pesare's organization before there was a parting of ways. Again, I suggest you e-mail GM Pesare and ask him directly what the list of "Black Belts for Eternity" is and what it means. It will save you some typing and help clarify some things for you.
  6. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich RENEGADE

    You're right. I deleted my post, although it did give me the impression he was punishing thoise that left him.
  7. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    In the land of the blind, a deaf man would be king! :rolleyes: Sorry Josh, I couldn't help it! Has it been ten years yet? ;) I am glad you found a school that satisfies your needs. You must admit though your needs are fairly limited right now. Give it some time and the analysis you have now WILL change.
  8. kempojosh

    kempojosh Valued Member

    yeah, the years flew by :D i had gotten tired of it but this thread is just too good to stay away from. even though i'm happy at steiner's school i won't be there too much longer. i'm moving to mississippi sometime around august. :cry: when i get there i'll be looking for another school. there's an american kempo school that i'm going to check out. there's also an aikido school that i'm thinking about joining.
  9. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    Thank you Jim!
    There are always hurt feelings when family members have disagreements and arguements. You can never deny they are your family though... I think that analogy works very well in this circumstance.
  10. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    I tried but I couldn't let it go.

    David lets look at the time line of your supposed conspiracy and discoveries of lies.

    All dates come from Mr. Geary's site.

    3-14-2004 - Mr. Geary receives Rokudan Cert from the KGS.

    05-2004 - Mr. Geary wants to know what he needs for his next rank.

    10-2004 - Mr. Geary asks GM Gascon for a letter of recommendation.

    10-18-2004 - Mr. Geary awarded Teaching Cert to Godan.

    12-2004 - There is not specific date mentioned "around the same time" Mr. Geary informs Prof. Rash Hanshi Angel is going to promote him to Shichidan and suggests the KGS and GM. Gascon do the same

    So, he gets 6th in March and 2 months later is pressing Prof. Rash for info to make it to 7th. I would allow this violation of protocal at the kyu grades but definitely NOT at the DAN grade. Just the fact that he would be asking for the "info to make it to 7th" speaks volumes about his lack of knowledge in protocol and etiquette. ESPECIALLY after just getting a Cert from them.
    If I were on the exec. board of the KGS I would be getting a little "uncomfortable" with Mr. Geary's demeanor.

    5 months later Mr. Geary contacts GM. Gascon and asks for a letter of recommendation. Sijo sends Mr. Geary a Teaching Cert.

    2 months after that, Mr. Geary tells Prof. Rash that Hansi Angel is planning to promote him to Shichidan and the KGS should do the same for him and two of his students(students to be promoted in the KGS as well) in July of 2005.

    BIG RED WARNING FLAGS would be going off in my head right about now. Here's why: He just got belted to 6th and 16 months later he wants to be promoted again?
    I do believe it was shortly after his request that the communication ceases.

    I see no lies or conspiracies. I do see an unfolding chain of events that would convince a reasonable person that Mr. Geary was and is only interested in rank and not the knowledge that comes training for it.

    Sorry David, you are dead wrong on this one.
  11. kempojosh

    kempojosh Valued Member

    so let me see if i got this. gascon drops geary as he is leaving omaha then sends him a teaching certificate. that doesn't sound right. if i dropped someone then i wouldn't be giving the person a teaching certificate. but i'm a low kyu rank, that must be why it's confusing.

    furthermore, geary received rokudan cert from the kgs in march 2004. 7 months later geary receives a teaching certificate from the kgs up to the rank of godan. geary asked for a letter of recommendation but gascon says he's got something better by giving the teaching certificate. and all of this is after gascon dropped geary......during this 7 month period did gascon or rash get around to watching the video?

    sorry Joe. but you and Prof. Shuras are contradicting each other. david might be onto something here. explanation please :confused:
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2006
  12. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    You have to understand Josh, I am not on the Executive Board of the KGS nor do I speak for the KGS.

    There is no contradiction as far as I can tell. There was a period of distancing that began with the return trip to Omaha from there, things only got worse and eventually fell apart totally. The more Mr. Geary pressed, the more distant things became in my view. I was not privy to the discussions between Prof. Rash and GM. Gascon. I have never spoken to either of them regarding their feelings when they left Omaha. I just looked at the time line and gave my opinion period. Again I see no lies, other than the ones which Mr. Geary admits to that is.
  13. kempojosh

    kempojosh Valued Member

    i understand that you're not on the board and you can't speak for the board. but why give a teaching certificate to someone that you want to get rid of. why authorize someone to promote people in your art if you don't want them around?
    prof. shuras is on the board, right? can you ask him why a teaching certificate was given to christopher geary 7 months after gascon and rash left omaha. furthermore, when geary stepped away from the kgs bbs, didn't gascon and rash reach out and have him come back. it was on the kgs bbs website.
    look, there are so many topics included in this one thread. there is no right or wrong in this feud. it's too complicated for that. there are only right and wrongs on particular topics. and according to the certificates presented to geary and prof. shuras, the kgs bbs is wrong on this: gascon and rash did not seperate themselves from geary when leaving omaha. they actually wanted him around. when geary left and posted chapter 14 is when the kgs decided not to having anything to do with geary.
    respectfully, josh
  14. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    They removed the sarcastic remarks about the videos from the page where they are linked, and they removed the comments that were imbedded in the video clips themselves, replacing them with new clips. Maybe you need to refresh your page in your browser.
  15. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    The official word of the KGSBBS is that Gascon was unhappy with Geary in March of 04. I am saying that this seems not to be true because:

    -> later that same year they issued him a certificate allowing him to promote others up to 5th dan;

    -> later they recommended him to the HMAIS for School of the Year.

    -> later still they brought him back into the org after he resigned the first time.

    I think the "disappointment in Omaha" is a story concoted by the KGS BBS to try to save face.

    If they were so disappointed, then what does it say about them that they would give him the teaching certificate anyway? And then why would they want to bring him back in the first time he resigned? Was the nomination just a way to get some money into Jamie's pockets? Dd Gascon get any of the money from that? What happened to all the money for that banquet anyway?... it all disappeared out of Jamie's house, and no police report was ever filed (that's what I read anyways), and the banquet was cancelled.

    Either the disappointment is a lie, or they just don't care who is teaching their system, as long as they money is flowing up to Rash, Gascon and the rest of the Family.

    so uncomfortable that you give a teaching certificate??? And recommend him for an award? your math is as bad as your reading LOL it doesn't add up!
  16. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    Yup! You are right.

    The comments were removed you are correct on that. I believe the comments were removed in keeping with "we report, You decide". You would have to ask Prof. Shuras as to the exact reasons.
    I think the videos speak for themselves with or without comments.
  17. KenpoDavid

    KenpoDavid Working Title

    I can guess... they realized it was in poor taste and was breaking their word. :eek:
  18. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    Strong words David.

    My math is just fine, thank you. :woo:

    1 warrant in Fl + 1 restraining order + 1 lie to Prof. Cerio + 3 substandard videos = 1 individual who is not worthy of being called a Martial Arts Professor.

    The questions you asked should be asked to the KGS directly. I cannot and will not address them here.

    I think your are a bit guilty of trying to shift some of the focus off of the videos we have seen to date of Mr. Geary.

    WHATEVER the reasons and timing of the ACTIONS of the KGS. I think their end result of severing all ties with Mr. Geary was and ultimately is the best decision. I think they saw him for what he is; a paper chaser.
  19. Joe V.

    Joe V. Valued Member

    Why guess when you can find out the answer? :confused:
  20. John Bishop

    John Bishop Valued Member

    I guess the moral of this story is;
    It dosen't matter how many organizations you can convince to give you rank. And how many certificates and certifications you have on your wall, and website.
    Rank without physical and technical skill is useless. Martial arts skill is learned, taught, and proven on the mats, not on the wall.
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