What do you think of this school?

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by AndrewTheAndroid, Feb 2, 2016.

  1. AndrewTheAndroid

    AndrewTheAndroid A hero for fun.


    I am thinking about studying at this place next fall when I move to Guelph, ON. The teacher seems to be a student of Jack Yan.

    This is the only school in the area that offers the styles that I am interested (Chen TC, Bagua and XinYi) in however I am not to keen on the qigong and TMC stuff.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2016
  2. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    No photos, no mention of resistive training other than push hands... I guess it depends on what you want out of training.
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    There is a vid clip
  4. kuntaoer

    kuntaoer Valued Member

    Andrea Falk is one of the most well known instructors of bagua in the north america region.. I have seen a lot of her stuff over the years and her explanation in bagua is top notch..
  5. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Shady alternative medicine stuff attached...
  6. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Shady because you don't believe in any alternative medicine? Or something specific to their particular take on alternative medicine?
  7. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    You're right, I'm being unfair. They could either be shady or very, very stupid. They cite multiple papers on their website that have incredibly loose controls in support of acupuncture. In any case, the fact that they use these papers to push a business forward should be a red flag as, if they are willing to be dishonest/incompetent in the filed of medicine, we should expect no better in the field of martial arts.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2016
  8. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Acupuncture is much more standard and accepted in Chinese culture. Can you even call it "alternative" considering its origins there?

    I hardly think a belief in the value of acupuncture should be used to discredit a Chinese Martial Arts school's martial arts training.

    Everyone - and there are many - who has a different belief than you on acupuncture is not shady or stupid.

    My GM is a licensed acupuncturist. That doesn't make him any less skilled in martial arts.

    Anyways, OP has already stated he wants to learn the MA, but not the medicine part. So I personally think focusing on the quality (or not) of the school's martial arts teachings is far more important.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2016
  9. ned

    ned Valued Member

    My feeling would be that since you already have a background in chen (and going by the teachers own clips) you'd be better off going directly to Jack Yan if he's also nearby .
  10. Prizewriter

    Prizewriter Moved on

    Also just to point out unless they have different teachers, the esoteric emphasis of neijia means one person is unlikely to know all 3 of those systems very well.
  11. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Comes down to integrity.

    Doesn't matter if someone is an MA legend, if they are peddling nonsense alongside their training then it raises questions about what they are doing and why.
  12. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    My point is that many people do not believe acupuncture is nonsense. If it is a traditional Chinese MA school, and they also study traditional Chinese Medicine- nothing is strange about that IMO.
  13. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Yeah, I'm weirded out by that. It would be like every HEMA club offering leeching, humor rebalancing therapies. The fact that they include links to blatantly bad science is enough that I wouldn't want to train there.
  14. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Meh, it's quite common that some (many) CMA people also have an interest in this stuff. Due to the traditional links between CMA and TCM it's just not that unusual. I doubt those links are part of the Western martial tradition, so not quite the same thing. If you want traditional then you'll often get some tradition thrown in.. The medicine side has never attracted me one bit, but if you want good accessible quality you can't discount everyone that has an interest in this.. Some of them are remarkably good at CMA, and I've never personally met anyone who tried to push that side on me.

    There maybe dodgy teachers around, there are, that often use the esoteric side of IMA/ CMA to form cultish groups. It happens. As long as the person can keep the martial art as it's own thing and doesn't aggressively push you towards stuff you have no interest in, I don't see a lot to be alarmist about.

    People have different beliefs to me about religion, holding that against them if they can teach me good MA would be just as pointless. If the bit you want is done well, swerving it over an active interest in something else you don't like.. is tantamount to cutting off your nose to spite you face.

    But if you have no real interest in CMA, you will never really have to make these decisions and find out what it's like on the ground. My advice to the OP, is simply try out the guys you identify and pick the one you like best, or none as the case maybe.

    Each to their own decisions, it's your bed to lie in isn't it. One of the most "fighty" TCC/IMA guys I know of is a practitioner of TCM. Drives me nuts, but it has no bearing at all on his outlook and integrity on MA or his integrity as a person.

    You have to realize that most (majority I would say) of the people involved are sincere and believe, rather than charlatans trying to screw you over. They want to help and heal people with this stuff. Being (very) sceptical about that is one thing, but the rest is (in my experience) an over reaction.

    This guy could well be a perfectly decent bloke and a good teacher; that's my point.
    One of the first guys that taught me at BJJ class in the past was also a Shiatsu practitioner, didn't matter either.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2016
  15. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    If someone has good martial stuff I'm not going pass up learning from them just because of the presence of some branch of TCM in their school I don't consider.... as worthwhile as some other treatments.

    If one is going to avoid a place for such reasons,then I'd advise against any attendance at Cornell University,or at least the vet school,as they've been applying homeopathic :)confused:?!?!?!?:confused:) treatments for people's animals for at least a few years now. (Boggles my mind).As to acupuncture---

    Here's a big seminar they had there in 2014-"This year's Seminar will feature Dr. ......, a Clinical Assistant Professor from the University of Florida's College of Veterinary Medicine. In lectures and presentations that will be offered throughout the day, she will explore various aspects and the therapeutic benefits of acupuncture."

    Thing is,in spite of encroachment of some, um, questionable "alternative" treatments/teachings -there I think one could still become a competent veterinarian at that school.And that's what matters. Watcha think,Philo?

    To raise a "red flag" about an MA school because of some TCM is pretty silly,esp in light of how many good CMA guys of both Chinese and western extraction have been heavily involved in such things.
  16. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Would you train under Erik Paulson?
  17. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I see your guys points but I still have some reservations. To me, this is different from Cornell engaging a speaker who has shoddy scientific practices - they are offering to treat sick people with bunkum. I'd be willing to learn from someone who endorses such practices, but if their business model included taking advantage of the sick and propagating bad science for their own gain I'd have serious reservations about giving them money.
  18. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    If you are going to a Doctor to get well you are not concerned if he can fight though...if I am going to a martial arts teacher to learn how to fight i don;t care if he cures sick people

    Hung I Hsiang was a TCMA practitioner just as a for instance
  19. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Equally Indian martial arts like Kalaripayattu have a connection with traditional Indian systems of medicince (ayurvedic and dravidian).

    You will often find some practice in any school which you will dislike whether religious, cultural, technical, training method, etc. Ignore the bits you don't like as long as they aren't potentially injurious to you and take what value you can from the school.
  20. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    The martial arts teacher is claiming that he can cure sick people and that's an ancillary portion of his business though. This is considerably different from a doctor not being able to fight, it is a business that is actively engaged in defrauding vulnerable people. If an active portion of a marketing campaign and business were advancing creationism or discriminating against gay people I'd also think it was really suspect and avoid training there or if it were another business, shopping there even if they were the best R/C airplane store in town.

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