What do you owe an employer?

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by LilBunnyRabbit, Dec 12, 2012.

  1. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    I'm stuck in a little dilemma, and wondered what people thought they'd do in my situation, as well as what the 'moral' thing to do is.

    I've recently handed notice in at work and accepted a new job, with a decent salary and only an hour commute rather than an hour and a half. So far, all well and good.

    But before I accepted it I was offered another one, for a lower salary but only a ten minute commute. I turned that down, because the salary's slightly lower than I have in my current one. So, I signed the contract and everything as you'd expect, and handed in my notice.

    Now the one ten minutes away has come back (after several weeks) and asked me if I'd be interested on a much higher salary than they originally offered - one quite a bit higher even than the job I've accepted.

    So, how much do I owe to the company whose offer I've accepted? I feel a bit funny about telling them, after accepting their offer, that I've changed my mind but a higher salary and only ten minutes travel is rather appealing.
     
  2. Sketco

    Sketco Banned Banned

    You don't owe them a thing. The decision is all about you based on travel considerations, money, working conditions etc.

    Based on the information here let's take a little scenario. If I told you I was going to give you a hundred dollars for walking two feet or the same hundred dollars for running the length of two football fields which would you choose?
     
  3. CrowZer0

    CrowZer0 Assume formlessness.

    It depends on your contract, but you owe them nothing, unless your contract binds you to something. Just talk to them, and let them know, I'm sorry, I accepted your offer, but since then I have been made an even better one, I regret to inform you that I'm going to accept the other one. For all you know, they may even offer you a raise or give you an incentive to stay on.
     
  4. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    That's actually kind of what I'm worried about. I feel that being in a bidding war is kind of greedy. :(
     
  5. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    You're a finance director's wet dream.

    Take the better paying job. To do otherwise is only going to sow seeds of resentment before you even start work.
     
  6. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    A couple of things...

    Credit to you for feeling a moral pang about this. Many people wouldn't.
    The people you've agreed to work for, though they may be annoyed you've let them down, will understand why you went to this other place. They are (hopefully) human too.
    I'd worry about this new place. It sounds like they tried to cut corners by not offering a competitive wage, realised they didn't get anyone worthwhile and so have upped the salary. That suggests, to me, a smear on their competance as an employer and how mercenary they approach business.
    How likely is burning your bridges with the company likely to affect you down the road? I know the business I work in can be quite tightknit and a boss you annoy today can end up being the boss you want to give you a job later on. It might not be worth that risk for some (attractive) short term gain.
     
  7. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    Well, if another applicant had suddenly appeared with better qualifications, do you think they'd have kept you out of obligation? (short of any labor laws I'm not aware of)

    Generally I try to treat any job questions entirely based upon cost vs. benefit. To look at business entities as people whose emotions must be considered is a handicap that employers tend not to share.
     
  8. CrowZer0

    CrowZer0 Assume formlessness.

    Greed is good! Any decent business knows that, I have a feeling you're being a little to "nice" about this, but I'm very sure your employer would understand your decision, and would probably do the same in your situation.

    You need to get what is best for you. If someone is offering you more, for pretty much the same job. Then take it.

    It's not about greed, it's about being practical. You could call the employer greedy for skimping out on you, wanting to get you for less than you are worth. You could see it as the other company value you a lot more so have decided to reward you with a higher salary. It really isn't about greed, and I do think you are being too nice about it. :)

    I've done this on a few occasions, I collect offers, and get the best one. In the end, I got a contract I liked, for a salary that suits my needs more (less basic, more for my performance) I get appreciated more.

    I hate working for a basic salary in a company with other people doing the same job as me, but worse but being rewarded the same. I also believe I deserve a certain salary for the job I do, and would in an instant go for someone who offers me more, for the exact same job. Unless there were other circumstances involved, like the people there, the clientele, and how different the circumstances were with databases and so on.

    For example if someone else offered me a higher significantly higher salary for a less known organization, where progression would be an issue for me and I had doubts about their abilities, I would stick with the company I'm with where there are more opportunities, and the name means something to clients.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  9. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Thanks for the reassurance guys. I still have moral pangs, but less so now, and think I can deal with them.

    I can't really blame them too much for this - there's been a recent exodus of people in my field going from permanent positions to contracting, so I'm one of the few who still look for permanent positions left. It's bumped the average salary by rather a lot over just a few months, and even some recruitment agencies are still advising people to use the older salaries.

    Shouldn't be too much of a problem - I do IT, so which business I work in is pretty arbitrary. Many different industries use the technology I work with so I can always jump industry if someone is upset.
     
  10. Kuniku

    Kuniku The Hairy Jujutsuka

    I'd probably go with the better offer, but I to would feel bad about it, and would dread the phone call to the job you'd already accepted.

    You could tell them you've had a better offer and see what they say, they might then up their offer in return to try and keep you.
     
  11. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    You may wish to see how enforceable the contract is before going too far. From a labor point of view, you have committed to this first job by verbally accepting and by physically sighing it. Will you need to resign? You may wish to look at the contract language first.

    Morally, I would recommend discussing this with the HR people at the 'new' job you signed the contract for. Explain to them the situation and let them know you want out of the contract because of a better offer. That lets them increase their offer or start their new search immediately. It also lets you see if there are any ramifications for breaking the contract you already signed.

    Ultimately, you need to do what's best for you, but you also need to make sure you won't be harmed by breaking your contract.
     
  12. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    this sort of thing happens all the time and you shouldn't feel bad about rescinding your accepted offer. but as others have mentioned, i'd be a bit concerned about the place that weeks later suddenly offered more money. seems like they don't really have their stuff together. never a good sign if they suddenly have to up their wages to get the supply they need. that just means that they're not very good at recruiting and i'd be worried about what else they're not good at.

    what is the job?
     
  13. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    Are we talking about Mcdonalds vs Burgerking here or a Profession?

    If it is a profession then it is likely that company 1 and company 2 will operate in the same spheres so it is important to keep an eye on fallout. Whilst you might be covered legally and technically are there any emotions involved that could be negative from people - people who carry a grudge could be an issue, especially if you are in a niche profession as you are likely to encounter them again in the future, both with your current/new job and also when looking for your next.

    If it is a Professional job I would weigh up:

    1. Career path, growth opportunities beyond immediate compensation.
    2. People you will work with from a mentorship/professional development perspective
    3. Value of work/life balance. At your age you should be leaning towards work over life until you hit a high salary in order to create enough wealth to enjoy the life side of the scale later on.

    If everything other than pay leans towards the job 1hr away and the difference is substantial I would go for explaining the counter offer and that you are very committed to them and would like to join them but this is quite a difficult decision. Leave it vague and open but create a seed of doubt in them that they might be losing you just for pay - and see how they react.

    If you want to try that I would consider doing it only once you have the 10min job offer in hand (signed by the employer) so if you lose the 1hr away offer due to a reaction by them then you have an insurance policy.

    I don't know UK law but in other regions, if you have a signed job offer the company cannot rescind it without payment of the probationary period IE if they have a clause that can fire you for any reason in 90days as a trial, they have to pay you the full 90days, so if they pull a signed offer they have to pay you off the 90 days (which more often than not just makes them not do it).
     
  14. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    Yes, there are laws that would penalize the employer - but I'm not sure that would apply in the UK or not.

    Extending an offer, and having a person resign then pulling it to give to someone else isn't good practice and people are protected against it.

    On the other hand, the employer is very rarely protected, as an employee can always quit, the most they can lose are any upfront bonuses etc that have been extended from the employer to the employee.
     
  15. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    I always read contracts carefully before signing (I've been bitten before by odd clauses), but in this particular case it's not a problem. I have a confirmed start date, and then a probation period. At any time up to the end of that probation period I can give them 1 weeks notice - including before my start date. They can do the same to me.

    Yep, I would definitely be speaking to them first in any case.

    Profession, however what I do is somewhat industry-neutral and the two companies work in very different spheres.

    Thank you, I will be taking this into consideration but don't have too many worries about it. If someone's going to be unprofessional, or carry a grudge, I'd prefer not to work for them in any case.

    The job I've already accepted does offer more training potential, which was what weighted me in their favour to begin with, however with the extra money I could actually afford to pay for the training myself quite comfortably - and have more freedom in the courses I want to work on.

    This is one which definitely weighs into the decision. At one company I'd be working with another person on the same level, reporting to the head of the department. At the other I'd be doing my usual one-man-band trick, which has the drawback of no one to collaborate with (inside the company, I have a network of people in the same field and we do collaborate), but also gives me much more ownership of the system.

    This is a big one. I don't like talking about my salary, but it's safe to say that I have put my time in to get to that high enough salary - which means the shorter commute would allow me more time to start fixing up the life side of the equation.

    Very good advice, thank you.

    This is one of the bits I feel guilty about - I'm not going to tell the one I've accepted about the job until I have the contract from the other in hand (and, more importantly, have read it thoroughly), but I don't like the feeling of hiding something from them. I know it's only sensible as they may have a negative reaction, but it doesn't make me feel good. :(

    Thank you mattt, very useful advice there.
     
  16. CrowZer0

    CrowZer0 Assume formlessness.

    AHA! This makes it a little more interesting, since it's a probation with one weeks notice, and you don't wish to feel any guilt and say no, why not intentionally get yourself kicked, or let them tell you "this won't work out".

    You could have some fun with it, go to work with inappropriate clothing, sit on your desk with your feet up, be a real life troll, see how long it lasts before they kick you out then go to your new place at ease! :p
     
  17. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Because I don't want a one-week entry on my CV which ended with gross negligence. :p

    I already have enough short-term (less than a year) jobs on there that I often get asked if I was a contractor.
     

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