What can Bujinkan offer me at my stage of life.

Erm, there are governing bodies for lots of martial arts. And all of them have some form of quality control. If I want to do Karate in the UK, I know I'm going to be fine with an instructor from the KUGB, JKA, ISKA etc. If I want to do Judo, any instructor from an association under the IJF is going to be competent. If I want to do TKD, the ITF or WTF. I could go on, but no doubt you'll just reply with some nonsense about personal responsibility.

 

If I buy a car and the brakes fail instantly does the blame lie on me or the manufacturer?

 

You guys have it all wrong, you are chasing the wrong rabbit down the wrong hole. Dan teaching certificates in BBT aren't like medical or pilot's licenses. Traditional certification in the actual RYU that make up the Takamatsuden would be that equivalent in this conversation. Finding one of the handful of people with said qualification is not difficult, and you could be quite quickly and easily assured that they knew how to do seoinage or any other aspect of the ryu in question.

 

If you find a menkyo kaiden holder in the ryu that make up the Takamatsuden, you can rest assured that they are going to be competent. If you choose to join any random Bujinkan dojo under any random foreign teacher, you are taking a big gamble. That is the reality of the situation, and something I have been saying for a long time on MAP. I have also been posting bad videos and pointing out why they are bad. If even one video disappears from that list because the account has been deactivated(hopefully because they quit teaching), or even one person sees that the school should be avoided, then it is worth it. Martial arts(and life too) are about personal responsibility. You make your choices and have to deal with the consequences. Blaming your bad choices on others is not a sign of maturity or a good way to be successful at life. There are no guarantees, that your doctor will cure you, that your plane won't crash, that your spouse won't cheat on you(thanks Tinder), or that your martial arts will save you in a hypothetical altercation. Facing that and figuring out where to go from there is something we all must do as martial artists, that is just the way it is.

 

I am not entering into the BBT/RYU argument, I am merely pointing out that flogging rank so they can delude others (and themselves to be honest) leaves a bad taste

You know from our discussions it is not the ART I find issue with

 

So what are they like?
Are they like the nonsense certificates kids get to make them feel happy for "taking part"?

 

and if they don't hold any then they are not?

 

Case by case. Personally, I wouldn't train under anyone without them but that is just me. I'm a Blue Meanie condescending elitist.

If one chooses to study the Takamatsuden, they should be aware of that and go in with their eyes wide open.

I'd say they're like fortune cookies.

 

Quality control isn't about making everyone outstanding.
It's about establishing an acceptable lowest limit below which you just haven't hit the mark.
Don't hit that mark and you don't get to teach BBT/fly a plane/practice medicine/practice dentistry/practice law/fix a boiler/MOT a car/clean a kitchen or any other number of other endeavours where a qualification can actually count for something.

 

nor would I.

How common are they?

 

The traditional certifications in the traditional arts are the quality control. If you learn under anyone who has them, you will at least know that they are competent to a certain degree. Whether or not they will teach you and to what degree is another story though.

 

BBT grades are like fortune cookies?
Given out by smiling Asian people when you give them money for a tasty, but ultimately unfulfilling, product?
Something the Asians know are bogus but it sends the westerners off with a smile and something to play with?

I can't say I see the similarity myself.

 

Wow, stereotype much?

I meant that each one is different and you won't know what you get until you crack it open. Fortune cookies were most likely invented in America, so another myth debunked.

If you are paying for rank, then you get what you deserve anyway.

 

And you don't hold the people charging for rank even partly responsible?

Fools and their money...its the ninjutsu way.

 

how depressing would it be to put in time and effort into something as a member of a gym, only to find out later that the whole 15th dan business means squat at the end of the day. right. so let's say you find a ninja dojo in america, work hard because you love the art. then oops, no menkyo kaiden.

i guess you still have the love of the art. and hopefully, one is in good shape.

 

Your argument falls apart here. You mention this many times, that "you" wouldn't train at a school of any art if the teacher couldn't do the stuff correctly. However, How in gods name would anyone not familiar with the art know that? Or in the case of the VAST majority of Martial arts practitioners, who don't consult the internet, even know and are just normal people?

That is what certification from a source with credibility comes in. people have to be able to tell at a glance if someone is legit or not. That is not possible with this art and many normal innocent people fall into the trap. They assume that they are like any other thing that requires a license to teach, that the person teaching it will be up to a minimum standard.

99% of the public and martial arts community has not even heard of Menkyo Kaiden. So they wouldn't know to look for it. Responsibility needs to fall on the organization sometime. It cant always be the fault of the lower to middle class person who cant afford to move to expensive Japan full time..

 

If that is the case they why are they even issuing dan ranks. Why does any other rank other then the traditional rank exist. Why does the bujinkan even exist, if he already passed on the ryu decades ago?

None of this makes sense, its like they are intentionally misleading people. Which is not honorable.

 

I'm just going to throw this out there as something I've been pondering for some time...

What if... Hatsumi agrees with the sentiments expressed here about many teachers being crap and intentionally watered-down rank in the Bujinkan so no one could use it to claim they are better than someone else or special in any way?

If you look at how Judan is awarded now it doesn't come from Hatsumi sensei though his name is on the certificate. It comes from being put forward by a group of your peers. The responsibility for this awarding of rank lies on those peers. By giving everyone the same thing (a high rank) no one can now claim to be above anyone else and as such they are all grouped together (which is what many of the detractors of this system are also doing).

Anyone looking to join the Bujinkan in this day and age can do a quick google search and see that the highest rank is 15th dan but at the same time see that there is a large number of people awarded this rank and from there deduce that maybe it's not that difficult to obtain. In that same google search will be found threads like this one and people will be forewarned.

I don't think Hatsumi sensei realised how difficult it would be to regulate an international Bujinkan when he first started teaching people who would return to their home countries. It's too late now to undo or redo what has been done but by making everyone out to be the same it's the individual who has to be the one who puts in the work to separate himself from the group. There are people doing that. If you want to train, train with those people.

/personal speculation based on only my opinion based on only my experiences.

 

Actually, my argument stands.

Luckily, not too many innocent people want to become black-clad assassins in their spare time. There is no excuse in 2015 to be ignorant of any martial art's reputation. A few decades ago, these arts weren't even heard of in the West, and weren't public knowledge even in Japan. Being exposed to them and the privilege to train in them isn't some right that is owed to anyone. If you have a burning desire to train in a traditional Japanese art, you will find a way to do so. Otherwise, you really didn't want it bad enough. Sorry to be a blue meanie on this one, but not knowing what menkyo kaiden is means that you haven't done your homework. Ninjutsu isn't boxercise or zumba, it is not meant for everyone.

One cannot assume to know the motives or reasons why Hatsumi sensei runs his organisation the way he does. If you aren't in it, it's really none of your business anyway. Those who are really concerned either leave or find a way to deal with it. Nobody is being misled, unless they read too many Stephen Hayes books and think that the godai is some real thing. Anybody who studies the Bujinkan knows the dan ranks don't mean squat, if you have access to a computer and you don't know at least that much, you wouldn't make a good ninjer anyway.