What can Bujinkan offer me at my stage of life.

Walsall MA

If you're in Walsall area check out Midland Kung Fu and Kali Schools. They teach traditional Chinese and Filipino arts o a high standard.

 

Seconded and this is what I was referring to what I said solid Gung Fu.

Well worth a look and the bruises.

 

Ulster Yank posted

Why is it when people critique Ninjutsu they always compare it with other martial arts?

Now having said that I'm in full agreement that it would be completely stupid to hold your hand out to a boxer for him to grab your wrist, but I think your missing the context. Lets say that someone is getting aggresive and I place my hand in a position to say "Calm down" and then he grabs my wrist. Something I do intentionally knowing that once he grabs my wrist I can take control, or what if someone tries to take something from me like my car keys, or a woman is grabbed by the wrist and pulled either to take control of her or pull her to a place where she could get raped. This is why I say your using the example of wrist grabs in the wrong context. Defences against wrist grabs have their place, maybe not against someone who is in a boxing stance, but certainly of use in other situations.

..

Who said you should block kicks with your arms?

Again this is out of context. Firstly, and i've said this time and time again, but Ninjutsu is not a combat art in the way that Thai boxing is, i.e. in Ninjutsu many of the attacks are defensive in that they react to an attack not initiate the attack. Bobi No Kamae like joint locks has a context, a reason for being in the curriculum. Its not a kamae that would be used against all attacks and indeed Bobi No Kamae is only found in one of the ryu ha (Koto Ryu) and if you understood Koto Ryu you would understand maybe why Bobi No Kamae is in that particular Ryu.

Evolved for what though?

I'm not doubting the effectiveness of BJJ, but ninjutsu is, in my opinion a very good and effective system. I guess its horses for courses and theres not just one way to skin a rabbit. I just sometimes think that the way we compare martial arts is wrong i.e. karate could beat Ninjutsu, when we should be asking the question of...

What happens on the streets?

Do people use martial arts?
Do they grab your wrist?
Do they try to go for ground fighting?
Whats the most common attack?
How many people use knives?
And a whole wealth of other questions.
etc etc.

 

@OP

So, still interested in ninjutsu or has this thread killed that idea?

 

Do you believe my experiences in the Bujinkan made me any less able to fight? I would happily say, to some degree, there are elements of what I learnt there that I found more than useful when learning clinch work, or even in the military. Footwork, pivoting, locks, etc. Breakfalls, rolling. It all has come in handy at some point or another. I'm certainly still alive anyway (though to a degree that's also down to God's lottery).

Making a blanket statement and saying no one in the Bujinkan can fight, or is even able too is just silly and you know it. Especially so outside of the ring.

 

Actually, Kukishin ryu has some methods of blocking kicks with the arms, other ryu have methods of striking the leg as it is kicking. However, the basic idea of dealing with any strike is to move offline and counter as much is possible. Boxers never get their wrists grabbed? So in the history of boxing, there has never been a boxer who was arrested by the police? If there ever was, they probably had their hands cuffed, which would most likely require control of the wrist. Bobi no kamae is a basic kamae, also related to the position your arms might be in if you were holding a weapon. We wouldn't use it to deal with a thai kick, most likely counter kicks, or strikes to the leg while moving out of the way. Or, if time or opportunity didn't permit, leaving something painful for the leg to run into instead of our body.

 

Ayep, they actually sparred once a month.

 

Once a month?

The BBD guys I knew sparred every session.

 

I was always under the impression that people always looked down on BBD...but surely sparring on a regular basis would arguably lead to better quality control? Or am I missing something?

 

I think that IMHO it tends to look like bad mma.

 

You are missing something.

In my experience and looking back in hindsight there was a significant gap in the knowledge base of the BBD.

 

So it looked better than the majority of BBT then?

In what way? Between the instructors and the students (i.e. really poor teaching methods), or between the instructors of the BBD and those they claimed to have learnt from?

 

Wrong, the Bujinkan does NOT frown on cross training, my own teachers in japan have said, when asked about cross training, go for it, the more knowledge you have the better!, i started in Feng Sau Kung Fu and was doing both arts at the same time for about two years, which included full contact sparring, i stopped Kung Fu because i found it too restrictive, the was a certain way to do a technique and you couldn't deviate, whereas in the Bujinkan you have that freedom, i have trained in Kung Fu, Tae Kwon Do(switzerland) and i also studied Wing Chun for a while under Jay Dobrin, all very useful for me, my students are free to train with whoever they want, and some do, they're all Bujinkan, So no, cross training is not frowned upon in the Bujinkan or in Japan, unless it is with the other two organisations, Genbukan and Jinenkan, they have the same rules regards us.

 

The latter.

 

I did have respect for the instructor, however some of the sempais, particularly one, not so much. The instructor had prior martial arts experience, recieved his credentials from Hatsumi, and ran the Missouri Bujinkan dojo for a long time. He still teaches martial arts, but oddly enough is no longer involved with the Bujinkan. The last art I trained prior to my stint there was Muay Thai, and it was clear to me that the instructors I didn't care for had never sparred or had any experience from a live physical altercation which I personally find frustrating in martial arts instruction, and from my experience couldn't see too many Bujinkan adherents that would support Muay Thai as supplementary training. I've also seen this scenario online, so would only assume it'd be difficult finding a general consensus.

That example is actually coming from a Gracie perspective! The BJJ gym I train in is Gracie Barra, which has its own self defense curriculum. In Ireland there's a lot of people that come from other Jujutsu walks like Juko, Yoshin-ryu, and WJJF as well as other arts like Aikido that train different methods. I know it from ****o-ryu bunkai, and saw it in Taijutsu where the attacks taught to defend against are very unrealistic, and one example Gracie Barra gives to test the validity of those defences is,"Try doing that with any boxer." It's clear many traditional techniques are based around static techniques, little I must say that I've ever encountered working as a doir man, and I'm saying this coming from a JMA background that still holds a lot of affinity for it.

 

All the critics of Bujinkan..could someone please lay out, specifically, "what's missing" in Bujinkan as compared to other arts? honest question. I've never seen a MA so maligned in my life, and I'm trying to seriously understand what the issues are, besides the QC issues I've raised along with others. What about the art itself is lacking?

 

All very I interesting discussion so far. I havn't been able to post much as i am on holiday, also apologies for spelling errors as I'm jabbing this on an iphone. Looks like its a bit of a shroedingers cat situation at the moment then: until i try it I wont exactly know until I try it. Couple of final questions to keep the thread on track for future readers:

1)I met an Italian guy at a bar a couple of days ago who oddly enough did it for a while himself (he does kickboxing now)He believes I might struggle as Bujinkan is quite footwork dependent. Something about moving around your adversary while applying a joint lock in a way which is very different to other systems he has encountered. He believes I may with my boxing/fencing footwork background be a bit of a bull in a china shop initially.

2) Reading about I heard there was a organisational split. Genbukan, Jinenkan? I don't think there any in the midlands but how are they different?

3) Theres also Steven Hayes To-Shin-
Do online, some sort of modernised version on ninjutsu. Steven Hayes is the bearded American guy who made it popular right? He seems to believe that it needed updating, but from what little i read on the forums it now no longer resembles Bujinkan

4) BBD?

Thanks for the responses guys

 

Resistance training for the most part.

 

It's a pyramid scheme.
No pressure testing.
They claim to develop psychic powers (the Sakki test).
They claim to do 'x' but there is no video evidence of 'x'.
All the bad videos show fake teachers, but there are no videos of good teachers.
Obsession with lineage.
Unjustified secrecy.