What can Bujinkan offer me at my stage of life.

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Botta Dritta, Sep 1, 2015.

  1. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    Actually your argument falls apart based on what I have witnessed. I hate to break it to you but just because it is 2015 does not mean that everyone immediately goes and researches martial arts, their histories and lineage and controversies, before joining them. I know this because I saw it first hand. We had numerous people, just drop in off the street, no matter were I was training at, not having looked on line, didn't care to. They just saw the sign and walked in. This took place at every gym/dojo I have been at.

    I honestly see no reason why your towing the party line.
     
  2. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I have to agree that a potential new student has the responsibility to do some research beforehand. And if they don't, it really is on them.

    It's like people who buy a used car, but don't take it to a mechanic to get it checked out first.

    Granted, I just walked into my school and mostly went with my gut instinct. BUT, my ex had thought about going to my school and had done some research. So, I did know my school had a good reputation.

    Saying this does not absolve the school to behave responsibly/ ethically as well.
     
  3. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Ha ha ha. I am not known for toeing the party line.

    What is ninjutsu? What kind of person could've been a ninja? If you don't even have the wherewithal to investigate the art before you start it, how can you hope to really learn ninjutsu? Studying ninjutsu isn't some kind of right like voting, and it definitely isn't mandatory, like voting in Australia.

    If you are lucky enough to find a good teacher in these arts, there is a chance that something positive will come out of that. For many though, they are doing just what they want and are happily LARPing all the live long day. If they are being taken to the bank, at least they're driving the get away car.

    The onus is on the person wanting to learn martial arts, always. Either them or their parents(if they are a minor).
     
  4. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    If what you say was true, then no one would be students of the ATA, or BBT or Toshindo. Apparently 95% of the martial arts population doesn't research online.
     
  5. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    If you worry about people's grade then the Bujinkan is not for you
     
  6. Kframe

    Kframe Valued Member

    Grade is all some have to go on, at a glance. Grade should mean something. It is a waste to have grades that mean nothing. If traditional grades are all that matter, then dan ranks should not exist.
     
  7. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Honestly, if you feel that way then the Buj will be this crazy contradiction & it's not worth the trouble to rationalise it

    PR talks a lot about the traditional grades etc, but this is not the only POV on these things. In the Buj things are chaotic and constantly changing

    This isn't untraditional - for example in some traditional dojos they have the names of the students on the wall. These would be ordered in a hierarchical manner. Senior student at the top etc

    However, if the senior didn't train at the dojo for a while, maybe his name would be moved down the pecking order. In many ways the Buj works like this

    Actually, in my experience, this is a lot like life and not so much like most martial arts
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2015
  8. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    In the Bujinkan, much like the jungle, misery is all you got.

    Seeing how the don't have dan grades, or something, am i understanding that right?
     
  9. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Eh?
    Sorry I'm jet lagged so probably missing something
     
  10. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    The more of this thread I read the less Holy calling it a pyramid scheme seems like exaggerated figure of speech and more like an accurate assessment
     
  11. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    Line from a movie, sort of.
     
  12. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Wasn't hatsumi trying to get the bujinkan registered as a religion some time back? Kerching.

    Money making appears to be the primary purpose of the bujinkan as an org with the transmission of the ryuha being left to a sort of natural selection.
     
  13. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    your lack of empathy is astounding.

    just the fact that someone cares enough to actually pay and attend a gym to do a physical activity puts them way, way above your typical person. that same person could be watching television or playing video games. but no, they're taking time out of their life and/or family to pay someone to learn something.

    and now you're blaming that person for falling for the marketing campaign and getting taken to the cleaners by a 15th dan, which ultimately means nothing in your art.

    i wish there was a way to sticky your post so everyone looking to get into ninjutsu in the USA reads it first. "hey, here's what high-level practitioners of your potential martial art think of you"
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2015
  14. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    i don't even know what to make this of. except the analogy is horrible.

    "people should do their research and if they get taken to the cleaners, so be it. but that's not what i did. and yet, the seller should have some responsibility."

    i don't get what's going on in this thread. is it urinate-on-martial-art-students day?
     
  15. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Perhaps you don't know what empathy is. I've taken a lot of time and effort to expose some of the things about the Bujinkan that a lot of others don't want to be known. I have never been one to tout the party line just because everyone else does. I've tried to help many understand the reality of the situation, but of course many want to blame or shoot the messenger.

    Anyhoo, it is partly because of the number of people who joined up with the wrong perception or drawn by the mystique of the ninja, that we have this current world-wide situation.

    These arts were never for everyone, and they still aren't. I feel empathy for those who want to study martial arts but can't because of lack of money, or physical limitation, people with the ability to train in any martial art, also need to research what they are getting themselves into if and when they decide to pursue one. From my experience, handholding and coddling will not help one on their martial journey. I don't think many people were taken to the cleaners by trying to study in the Bujinkan, but I have done what I can to make sure I don't add to the problem. Not sure what else you expect from a solo green meanie(or was it blue).



     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2015
  16. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    perhaps you don't know what empathy is.

    i've never been so glad that i do bjj, judo and box as now.
     
  17. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Do you? Why do you think we are having these conversations? If the art was still small and secret we wouldn't be. I know what it's like to want to study an art so badly but being restricted for some reason. Now that I am able to, I do what I can to stay true to it and the teachings of my master(wow, did that sound Jedi Knightish or what?). We are all equally glad for you I'm sure.
     
  18. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Condescending ass =/= empathy.
     
  19. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    well, i think this might be an appropriate time to go back to the original post...

    apparently, the buj is very good at separating one for his/her money. because whatever dan rank you achieve is utterly worthless. not only will you be accused of larp-ing, but whatever you learn is meaningless as only finding the secret masters in japan (and somehow getting them to correct you) is the way to go.

    yes, years and years, and lots of your money. but again, whatever you learn from non-japanese masters located in secret locations is completely worthless. go to japan, and maybe you'll get lucky to find a menkyo kaiden who takes an interest in you. if not, tough.
     
  20. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    i honestly, can't even imagine thinking the way pr does about other practitioners of an art.

    sure in bjj, there are guys who are hard core competitors (mma or pro-grapplers), some people who are just tough and train a lot. and some people that because of family, work, life etc. just want to get out there 2-3 times a week, get a good workout in, slowly work on their game and maybe never want to compete ever. and i think it's ok to have that range of folks working out. there is also no secret location, ranks, scrolls, etc. one becomes recognized as a skilled grappler by beating other skilled grapplers--that's it. hell i think it's ok even that someone just wants to learn how to survive a ground encounter.

    as a note, i'm the 2-4 times a week, mid 40's blue belt, that competes maybe once a year category.

    but pr basically threw the entire world-wide ninjutsu community under the bus, except for him/her-self and i'm guessing a select few others.

    oof.
     

Share This Page